We who travel with firearms need to be careful not to run afoul of the fifty-piece patchwork quilt of United States gun laws.  This goes double on commercial aircraft and triple when we travel to other nations.  Take it from someone who regularly has to go up to airline ticket counters and say, “My name is Massad Ayoob and I have two handguns,” though I try to phrase it more diplomatically than that.

A case in point follows, submitted by one of my friends and graduates. Names are deleted to prevent embarrassment:

An interesting story I thought I would pass forward. My Dad, Wife, Mother, and I went on a trip to the Grand Cayman Islands. We had a great time and did some scuba diving. Dad has some property there and we enjoyed the week with great food and company. 

 

On the way back, Dad got pulled aside after the screening. To make a long story short, the coat he had was one we used to go shooting in Oct of 2013. It had a hole in the pocket where one live round (.38) fell into the liner of his coat. The Caymans have a zero tolerance policy for firearms related offenses. He was immediately arrested from the airport, taken to jail, and booked. We had to get the US Consulate involved in this process from the Embassy and he had significant legal fees etc… A mess. They consider a bullet the same as a gun generally. 

 

The lessons we learned were many, but one is …. check your coat. Despite the fact he had flown several times (2 different trips in the US with that coat) he had a bullet in the liner the entire time. The second and most important detail to share is that he had his concealed carry permit with him in this wallet. This single item, while causing a fuss in some restrictive states with over-zealous officers, saved his ass in Cayman. This made the difference between a day or two of inconvenience and a large fine vs. a week long ordeal and possibly worse! They saw the permit as plausible reason for him to have a bullet in the jacket and also proof he was not a felon in the U.S. either. I’m sure the fact he is a doctor and owns land there and has been there 20 times in the last 35 years didn’t hurt either. Thought I would share…

 

Thanks for sharing, bro.  I shot Saturday’s qualification with a 1911 .45, which is going to be my companion for some weeks to come, with seven-round magazines.  Reason: one jurisdiction I’ll be going through limits people to that cartridge count.  I won’t have my usual backup gun, which mounts a laser sight, with me either: another city I’ll be visiting on that trip has a local ordinance which makes such accessories a crime.

 

The best online resource I know of for staying up to date on the various regs in various places is handgunlaw.us.  For you Android and iPeople, the best app I’ve seen is Legal Heat.

 

Follow Ayoob’s Law Number Nine: Never break the law. Know the law better than the other guy, and you should never have to break it.

1 COMMENT

  1. You Sensei taught me well. Attending your academy in New Hampshire I had to fly to Boston’s Logan from Texas. I made it a point, as per your advise, of calling ahead, finding out who the ticket manager would be that day and informing him/her that I would be checking in firearms. I would clarify procedures and make sure they were working that day. I remember that on returning home from your class I was stuck in Logan’s “marble funnel” and arrived at the ticket counter barely in time. I still remember the horrified look the clerk gave when I informed him I was checking in firearms. He proceeded to angrily sputter I couldn’t check ‘those things’ in when I opened the Halliburton case. Realizing there was not going to be a “winning of hearts and minds” I said to him “I believe Mr. So&So is on duty and I have made arrangements with him”. I kid you not when the clerk stormed into his office, the supervisor, on the phone dealing with something else, poked his head out the door, saw my arsenal and gave me the thumbs up. I made the flight on time. My carry on luggage included the IPSC target you had signed (I didn’t want it bent) and yes the Flight attendants had a field day with it.

  2. Great Advice! You can never be careful enough when traveling and as you pointed out even some cities have some strange laws that can get you in legal trouble with items that are legal everywhere else. As for http://www.handgunlaw.us (Which I am the researcher for) there is an App out there that links to us. We have not partnered with them but linking is what keeps the net going and they link to us through their app. So if you want or need the info that handgunlaw.us has you can find it in an App. Check out “Gun Safe”. It also has other features. Also http://www.handgunlaw.us does not have ads and we make no money from our site or from Gun Safe. They just link to us. We supply the info free as we are all trainers and know just how much the information is needed. Just our way of doing our little part for the RKBA.

  3. That has happened in Washington DC to a long time resident who had an expended shotgun shell in his home. His house was raided by government thugs and he was arrested and charged with a crime punishable with 5 yrs in prision. Sounds like its way better in a banana republic than DC.

  4. Avoid NJ if at all possible. NJ is an arrest me now, and hope the judge allows an affirmative defense to be introduced at trial state. All guns are deemed illegal, and it will be up to you to prove why you may be exempt. Even the FOPA may not help you.

  5. Agree with all that has been said. I would add, that even when legal do everything you can to not advertise. Good concealment, naturally.

    Also no gun related stuff, such as clothing associated with police or concealed carriers. Especially no clothing with gun logos. No gun gear that can be seen, eg muffs, shooting glasses, etc.

    When I traveled between Pa and Va I had to pass through the Peoples Republic of Maryland. I naturally had my pistols and ammo in separate secure containers in the trunk. My pistols were in locked brief case and ammo in locked metal tool box.

    Brief case and tool box were legal and they did not indicate guns. If I broke down and had to remove stuff from the car with potential of police being on the scene taking brief case from vehicle would not have indicated gun, more like personal papers.

  6. I live in the west, and have VOWED never to travel in the east (at least many) states of Socialistic leanings

  7. Those who travel abroad or to domestic police states may want to get a portable metal detector and ‘wand’ yourself and luggage before going to places where certain freedoms and basic human rights aren’t allowed.

  8. Thanks Mas for the heads up. I will not travel to NY, CT, NJ, MD, CA or DC for that very reason. I do know their laws on firearms and won’t spend a dime in their states!

  9. Agree 100%. I strongly believe that those of us who carry concealed have a higher level of responsibility to know pertinent laws and avoid situations that could be problematic when possible.

    It’s a source of constant amazement the number of people who “forget” about the gun in their backpack, briefcase, whatever. Easier to understand how a loose round can be forgotten in a jacket pocket. Amazing coincidence, isn’t it, that a hole should exist in that pocket, allowing the round to fall into the lining and hide, and that that particular jacket be the one chosen to bring to the Caymans. Amazing!

  10. Dougbert,

    You don’t have to travel to the east to run into problems. An engineer on my staff informed me just today that her son was detained at LAX. He is in college, flying to another state. TSA found a 9mm cartridge in a shoe in his carry-on bag. Has no idea how it got there. Doesn’t even own a handgun. May have gotten in the bag when he was at home here in ABQ at Christmas. He is being charged with a misdemeanor.

  11. It is a shame that this is what it has come to. I was explaining to my sons this past weekend at a local international airport how you were able to get across to terminal side and being lawenforcemt show badge and I’d and get waived through. Now they don’t allow you at that point and law enforcement or not means nothing, CWP holder means nothing, you have to park your vehicle leave your gun there, risk theft of it, get into elevator’s and walk in parking garages unarmed or risk going to jail. Very sad times we live in were everything revolves around prevention of terrorist activity while taking away rights once afforded to law abiding folks.

  13. A little more info on the DC case: The defendant’s name is Mark Witaschek and the shotgun round in question is not precisely “spent” or “empty” but is a misfire with a dented primer, but otherwise operable. He’s also charged with possession of either – sources conflict – sabots for muzzleloader bullets or saboted muzzleloader bullets.

    DC law prohibits possession of ammo unless you have a registered firearm that can use it. Ammo is defined as “cartridge cases, shells, projectiles (including shot), primers, bullets (including restricted pistol bullets), propellant powder, or other devices or materials designed, redesigned, or intended for use in a firearm or destructive device.” Witaschek kept his guns at his sister’s house in Virginia had had no registered guns in DC. While guns manufactured before 1899 and replicas of such guns (but only muzzleloaders) are not considered to be firearms, muzzleloaders as a whole are not excluded from the definition of “firearm.”

    A box of fully operable ammunition (described in the press as .40 cal rifle ammo) was found in a prior search but the evidence of that was thrown out by the court as an illegal search.

  14. The reminds me of the American Handgunner piece (IIRC) Mas wrote about carrying into NY or NJ and the look on the Port cop’s face when he saw Mas had all the correct paperwork for his handgun and ammo. Too bad us non-sworn types have to go without!

    TXCOMT

  15. TXCOMT, it was New York/LaGuardia. You don’t have to be a cop to be legal, but the guidelines for citizens who don’t have NY permits is EXTREMELY narrow and limited.

    Dave (the liberal one), it must suck to be a cartridge collector in the District of Columbia. On the other hand, it would be a great excuse to your wife about why you need so many more guns.

  17. Thanks, Kyle. My reading of the decision is that it only covers one Federal Court district of the state, so out of an abundance of caution I’ll stay with 7 ’cause I’ll be traversing the rest of NY, too. Your concern is much appreciated!

  18. “Thanks Mas for the heads up. I will not travel to NY, CT, NJ, MD, CA or DC ”

    Excellent, so our plan is working!

  19. Just another note on the DC case. The two best pieces I can find on it are these two from the conservative Washington Times. Note that they are written by an editorial writer who focuses on gun matters, not a news writer, FWTW:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all

    and

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all

    (The editorial nature of the pieces is best noted by the second sentence of the first paragraph of the first piece: “This outrageous legal battle shows how far unelected, anti-gun liberals will go to attempt to destroy a man’s life.”)

    In my opinion, two preliminary facts are important to understanding this case: First, DC has a police unit, the “Gun Recovery Unit,” initially created in 1996, disbanded in the late 90’s, then re-established in 2007, whose sole job is to find and seize unlawful firearms under DC’s very strict firearms laws. Second, police attention was apparently drawn to Witaschek due to his “estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without merit.” To get some sense of what she might have said, the Times says that the wife “told [the Times] that she stands behind her testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District. ‘It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on the night table.’ However, Mr. Witaschek told [the Times] that his estranged wife never lived in the house on Q Street, nor was she ever in his house.”

    Whatever you may think of what the authorities are actually doing in this case, there’s a lot more to it than just an arbitrary prosecution of someone who just happened to have an “expended” shotgun shell in his home.

    Mas’ Law Number Nine seems very apropos here. As he quoted it, above: “Never break the law. Know the law better than the other guy, and you should never have to break it.”

  20. OTOH flying with a firearm does provide opportunities for education. I declared my handgun flying out of Denver. The ticket agent provided the form and consulted another page while I filled it out. Then he asked, “Do you have any ammunition in there?”

    “Yes.”

    “How much?”

    “Forty rounds.”

    “Oh, no! That’s way too much! You can only have eleven pounds!”

    So I got to do some impromptu instruction.

  21. Let me clarify DC law. If you have any registered firearm you may own any ammo except .50 BMG or armor piercing handgun ammo. This is a recent change we got city council to accept.

  22. I got snagged at the airport for explosives residue. The machine they were using picked up remnants of gun powder on some of my clothes from shooting at a school I attended. My concealed permit and police ID didn’t keep the TSA from holding me for 9 hours and beating me with questions that they had no real interest in me answering. But at least I didn’t end up in GITMO

  23. Mas – I remember reading about issues like this awhile back in some of the articles you did for ‘Combat Handguns’ magazine – actually these were so far back you could actually legally carry a short-bladed knife on to an aeroplane!

    But IIRC in one of your articles you gave *one* of the reasons airlines were so paranoid about guns, was an incident where a Secret Service holdall slipped from an overhead locker and the Uzi inside it accidentally discharged. I don’t suppose you recall any of the details of this? It just always surprised me that an Uzi, grip safety, would accidentally fire in this manner.

  24. Fruitbat, it was about 40 years ago, on Kissinger’s plane. IIRC, Uzi was in case, case fell off luggage rack, weapon discharged from inside case. With open bolt submachineguns, a violent jolt will sometimes bounce the bolt back far enough to strip a round into the chamber without the bolt catching the sear. I’m told it happened frequently with the old British Sten gun.

  25. Mas – Thanks for the info, and yes I’m aware of the possibility of open bolt submachine guns to fire when dropped. It was something in the British Army, over thirty years ago now, I was warned about with the Sterling SMG. Although I never personally witnessed it, or met anyone who had.

    It’s just that, as far I was aware, it shouldn’t happen with the Uzi since, unless the grip safety was depressed, the bolt was locked into position. As I said, as far as I was aware, never having personally handled an Uzi myself.

  26. The old story regarding airliners, and guns, has to be the time someone tried to highjack the plane, and was wrestled to the floor by passengers, and then the pilot, a Pan Am one as I recall, took the wood be highjacker’s gun, dragged him to the doorway, shot him in the back of the head, pushed the corpse out on to the tarmac, and continued on his flight.

    Think this happened in the Phillipines, and it must have been at least 30, or 40 years ago?

    Score one for the good guys that time!

  27. Agree with the 7 round capacity in NYS. Last year in January, it made me get on Midway’s website and get more 7 round factory Kimber 45 ACP boxes for my full size GM’s. Although the 7 round capacity was struck down here in WNY; there are rumors that some DA’s will attempt prosecution for more than 7 in the box in other parts of the State (Onondoga Co. – Syracuse area), if you are caught.

  28. DO NOT try to cross into Canada with a NRA sticker on your vehicle unless you want to be subjected to a complete unloading of every bit of gear you are taking on your fishing trip. There was also a letter in my NRA magazine a couple of years ago from a Connecticut state trooper who attempted to go into Canada on a vacation trip. He showed someone on the Canadian side of the border his driver’s license that showed him in his highway patrol uniform and as a result had guns pointed at him as those with the guns loudly demanded to know, “Where is your weapon?!?!”

    In one of my four wheel drive oriented magazines the editor related this story:
    He was traveling on a freeway driving an older Dodge Ramcharger that was to be the subject of a feature article in the magazine as a build up project. The vehicle had a paper license dealer plate taped to the inside of the rear window. The tape became brittle from the hot sun and the tag fell to the floor. A CHP officer stopped him because there was no plate on the vehicle and while walking up to talk to the driver looked inside the rear and saw a single, spent, low base 20 gauge shotgun shell on the floor. The driver had been hunting quail the week before and missed it when unloading his gear. This also resulted in weapons being drawn and pointed at the driver and loud demands to produce the, “weapon.”

    Just remember, the cops are not always your friend and you don’t know what type of person is on the other side of the badge. Seems like every week there is another news story about some cop shooting an innocent citizen or going way over the line for no reason.

  29. Just go to the People’s Republic of New Jersey with a spent .22 LR brass casing in your pocket, and presto! you’re in México or the UK! No need to travel far to experience the joys of totalitarianism.

  30. Thank you, Mas, for being there for all men of goodwill. And thanks to Ernie of Cedar Valley Outfitters, who got Dr. Dan Wing to bring me to your outstanding classes.

  31. NJ can be tricky, but you need to know the ways around certain situations.

    A, all guns in transit (motor vehicle) must be empty, magazines unloaded, ammo in boxes which are separate from t he guns and have a lock between the people and the guns. I.e. if the guns are in a locked trunk they don’t need to be in a locked case, if they are in the back of the van they do need to be locked. Ammo doesn’t need to be locked but I do so they wont see it on a “casual search”.

    B, when you go to the airport, unlock the gun case but keep it closed. At the ticket counter look for a supervisor, or barring that say “I need to declare a checked – unloaded firearm”. You don’t turn over the case but they should finish checking you in and then escort you to the TSA area. TSA will open it in the TSA Room (you will probably wait in the hall), then ask you to lock it. I have traveled with long guns several times, and handguns once and never had any problems.

    ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS you are on your way to or from a hunting camp, Range or competition, no matter what time or date. There is no legal reason for having a gun outside the home other than these three… Technically, taking your gun to a gunsmith is not a “published” reason, and bringing it home from the gun shop in the first place is questionable.

    Other than that the laws are pretty straight forward, and I have been pulled over with firearms in possession many times. Never a problem the above would not solve.

  32. I travel a lot and almost always take at least one handgun with me, somewhere between 50-70 trips. Sometimes it can be a hassle if you run into an employee at the counter who isn’t familiar with firearms regs. TSA used to be a real PITA but they seem to have gotten better in the last couple years.

    The key to traveling as hassle free as possible is READ your airline’s rules AND TSA regs then re-read them. If you’re not sure then call.

    DO NOT take ANY firearm parts or accessories, even empty shell cases, etc. You may not get hauled off for an empty case but you WILL be inconvenienced for a length of time. If traveling will my wife or daughter I have them check my carry-on for any “prohibited item”.

    I had an experience where a “prohibited item” was hiding in a fold in my backpack. Of course the screener caught it and I was in for 45 minutes of talking to a variety of people. I think my LEO creds convinced them I wasn’t a Taliban so I was left with a stern warning. Double and triple check your carry-on. Off course this happened at Washington Reagan airport where they are hyper alert to anything coming on the planes.

    What bugs me is the inconsistency of procedures at airports. Northwest and United would do things one way in this city and a different way in another city. In one place they’d take your word the gun was unloaded, while another the counter person wanted to see it. As if TSA can’t tell if its loaded or not. It seems to be improving but post 9/11 it was a mess for years.

    Besides strictly following the regs for ammo containers, I would go the extra mile with the handguns. Autos I field strip while revolvers I run a security cable thru the barrel to disable it. Airline and TSA like that judging by their facial expressions. My badge on a chain in the locked container helps ease their fears, if they had any.

    Bottom line: its not hard to air travel with guns as long as you follow the rules AND don’t be a jerk even if you’d like to speak your mind. A smile and calm demeanor goes a long way.

    Happy travels. I’m heading to Orlando next month and judging by their news I may need two handguns plus extra mags. 🙁

  33. While it’s not clear how the Airport Security found the stray round, they deserve a big attaboy for finding it. Over the decades I’ve found quite a bit of strange stuff inside coat linings. All of it there without criminal intent, but in quite a few cases, those folks had previously been “searched” repeatedly without the items being discovered.

  34. Thanks, Mas, for the info. I make it a habit to wear shoes and outerwearthat has NOT been to the range in order to avoid the electronic “sniffers”; I do not travel by airplane anywhere that I can drive within 10 hours as I despise the whole TSA “feel good” BS, which is what it is. I live in IL and have occasion to go to Chicago frequesntly to see our son perform athe the symphony, and get back out of town ASAP. Many folks are OK with doing the travel battles; I am not. I haven’t flown outside the U.S. since ’75 in the Navy, and only rarely get to Canada at the Boundary Waters area, where all weapons are locked with a trusted source on the U.S. side before hopping aboard the boat. I’m OK with all of this; different strokes and all of that. I will say that there are numerous downstate agencies and district attorneys that have taken the position that they will not pursue minor firearms violations against otherwise law-abiding citizens. I wouldn’t want to bet the house on that, but it’s encouraging. If the DOJ can pick and choose which laws it will uphold, why not have that on the local level? (sarcasm off). Thanks again!