Hey, folks, please accept my apologies for being away from the blog longer than usual. It’s the month from Hell for me: two classes for armed citizens, two for cops, and one for both, plus a couple of trials. One of the latter comes from an officer-involved shooting (OIS) and I’ll be speaking for the officer who fired at his trial later this month; the other saw me speaking for an armed citizen who shot two people to protect himself, his wife, and his special-needs child. It just went to verdict yesterday, after I spent three days at the Public Defender’s Office and in the courthouse in the city where it happened.

The verdict was no verdict: the jury deadlocked. Eight of the twelve voted to acquit in what most trained people would have seen as a clear-cut self-defense shooting. Two voted to convict. And two jurors couldn’t even come to a decision. (Silly me: I always thought that if you couldn’t decide if the defendant was guilty or not, that constituted the very definition of “reasonable doubt” and the vote should be for Not Guilty.)

Since this outcome means the case has not been adjudicated fully yet, I can’t talk about it here. However, I did notice one interesting thing.

At least four cops testified for the DEFENSE of the armed citizen, including at least one lawman who was on the scene immediately after the shooting.

People who are independent by nature and avoid government interference with their lives as much as possible, don’t get to see how government – and the government’s appointed authorities – actually operate day to day. They seem to fear the police. With almost 36 years wearing a badge now, but having been an armed citizen before I pinned on the shield and knowing that I’ll be one when I turn that shield back in – I have a foot in each world. And I can tell you this: the majority of America’s street cops are on the side of citizens who lawfully and righteously protect themselves, with guns or otherwise.

Leroy Pyle, a seasoned street cop who is now retired and can freely say the things he said in support of armed citizens when he was still in uniform – and took a lot of crap for it – has started a new organization that hopes to bring together those natural allies, the law-abiding armed citizens and the police who are sworn under oath to serve and protect them.

Next week, I’ll be running two different classes for ILEETA, the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association, at their annual conclave. Several hundred police trainers will attend ILEETA.  The National Rifle Association will have a booth there, and some of their instructors will be teaching.  By contrast, the Brady Bunch and the other anti-gun groups will be notable by their absence.

This, I submit, should tell you something…

1 COMMENT

  1. Where it says “You’ll find links HERE, HERE, and HERE.” – there are no links. I’d be very interested in this organization.

  4. You’re missing the links you meant to give there, just FYI.

    I’m 100% ready to believe that most cops are on the side of citizens and self defense. I run into so many current and ex-cops on the different forums that I have to believe it. What gets me is that all these guys apparently have so little pull in their organizations that their official fronts, such as the Fraternal Order of Police, almost *always* come out against gun rights. At least, that’s how it is here in Ohio. Does the leadership of the FOP that poorly represent their members?

  7. Mas,

    Sorry to say your links (“HERE, HERE, and HERE”) appear not to be working.

    Keep up the righteous work. I’d rather have you teaching classes and going to bat for innocent people than blogging any day. Hey, wait a minute… don’t you have a day job as a cop some of the time too? 😉

  8. The majority of our interaction with police is by getting pulled over for traffic “violations” masquerading as stealth taxes. If we only interact with police when they are in tax collector mode, why should we fear them any less than the tax man?

  9. Thank you very much for the nice comments and pointer to my new blog. I have long admired your work and writing. Good luck with ILEETA.

    Leroy

  10. Do not forget you had to write that article for Glock’s Annual magazine also. Got my copy the other day from the local Glock Rep.

  11. Mas,

    Maybe I’m silly too, as I always thought that when a jury couldn’t come to a conclusion that it was reasonable doubt as well.

    How many times does a prosecutor get to hammer away at the innocent? I’m not referring to this case, but many cases down through the years.

    It seems to me that when a person’s freedom or life hangs in the balance that the state, or any government entity, having resources that the common man doesn’t have that in the interest of fairness should only be able to take their “best shot” once. If they don’t get a conviction, so be it and move on. Our legal system was founded on the principle that it’s better for 100 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to be wrongly imprisoned.

    Target fixation can be a bad thing, not just for self defense encounters against multiple opponents, but for government bodies. It’s too easy to lose sight of what you need to see to get the full picture.

    Take care and stay safe,

    Biker

  12. Thanks for sharing this Mas, I look forward to future updates on the subject. Since becoming an IDPA shooter, I often have the opportunity to compete with people with various law enforcement backgrounds. Very often our conversations lead to discussions about their personal feelings about citizens being armed (In my state, there isn’t any concealed carry, so the conversations are more about what are you allowed to own, how to carry it (to the range and back). Is there any concern when someone buys a number of firearms for a collection or to compete, etc.

    While most of the LE professionals I have come in contact are very much pro-armed citizen, I have heard a few stories of anti-gun Cops. Recently a father & son (Lieutenant/Patrolman) joined our group and told their chief, who in turn said “What? You are shooting with gun-nuts?”

    I guess we still have a long way to go

  14. I my 33 years as a police officer, right up through the rank of Commander, I think I may have met five police officers who favored gun control. And they were invariably higher ranked officers influenced by the politics rather than personal beliefs. Join Oathkeepers. Do it now.

  15. As someone who have gotten free donuts for over nine years with two departments, I can say from personal experience that most, probably 90% of street cops are pro-gun. However, that would mean little to the guy who happens to be unfortunate enough to encounter the 10% of officers/deputies who do not believe in the right to bear arms. Even among the pro-gun cops, quite a few were shocked to discover I am a member of the NRA, much less a Life Member as they consider that organization populated by “crazy gun nuts and wild eyed vigilantes”. Also, it seems that as police personnel get promoted higher up the ladder, they tend to become less pro-gun. Maybe that is to conform more to the administration and high ranking bureaucrats in city/county government who they need to kowtow to for job security. In most departments, captains and above are not represented by the union and serve at the pleasure of the Chief or Sheriff, so they better watch what they say and keep their boss(es) happy. All people legally packing heat should read Mas’ excellent books on self defense with firearms and if they are ever in a shooting situation, keep their mouths shut until they speak with their lawyer, even if the investigating officer seems like a nice guy/gal just doing his/her job. Don’t hang yourself with your loose tongue.

  16. Mass, I’m sure your percentages are right, and I truly believe you’re doing the Lord’s work. But as an old codger from Louisiana, where the entire world witnessed the unlawful and unconstitutional confiscation of firearms from law-abiding “We the People” in and around New Orleans during Katrina, I find it difficult to trust any police officer when it comes to how, where, when, what, and why I am armed. When one considers that additional police units from states as distant as California were brought into the hurricane ravaged area to assist with the confiscation, trust in the police becomes a scarce commodity.
    Furthermore, it’s really difficult to have confidence in “the police who are sworn under oath to serve and protect the people”, when SCOTUS has consistently ruled the police are not responsible for the safety of the individual citizen.
    “Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.” – George Washington, Commander in Chief – Revolutionary Forces, British Traitor, U.S. President

  17. Mas,
    First off, thank you for your 36 years of police service(Gads, has it been THAT long?)
    You are absolutely correct that many people fear LE for one simple reason; many cops have this “control” attitude that says, “I’M in charge of you now!” I do not know if this is taught in academies nowdays( you’re probably in a better position to know than me.)
    I just know I don’t like interacting with LEO’s and getting the feeling that they view me as the enemy right off the bat even when I’m not acting in a belligerent manner towards them first.
    I’m sorry to say this as a armed citizen who has never been arrested for anything, but I do try and stay as far from cops as I can simply because I don’t trust them. I feel the the days of Officer Friendly are long gone, more’s the shame.

  18. Mas,
    I’ve been a cop now for 25 years, having been everything from street cop to “acting” chief. I spent no little amount of my free time in high school and college reading your writings in magazines, and eagerly purchased each of your books as they came out.

    I find that I still try to read most everything you write, because based on my own experience over the intervening years, I agree with 99.9% of what you say. Although some of the comments written here express a little trepidation with your saying that most cops are on the side of armed citizens, I have to agree with you.

    What I wonder though is if that differs regionally. Living and working in Oklahoma where many cops and civilians alike are gun owners and where the state and local governments are “gun friendly” my experiences might be different than say if I had worked for Chicago PD or Metro Washington DC PD.

    My son, who now works as a cop in Southern California was raised around guns and has maintained his enthusiasm for gun sports. He has a few of officers on his department who have attitudes about civilian gun ownership (but only a few on a department of a few hundred). I have even heard a couple of anecdotal stories of getting grief from officers in Oklahoma by CCW holders who are friends of mine (but only a couple).

    What I think most of your civilian readers worry about is running into one of “those” officers under the wrong circumstances. All it takes is one bad encounter to ruin your day or worse.

  19. Frankly, it’s none of the government’s business whether I’m armed or not.

    Sad that so many think that it is.

  21. Hi Mas,

    Long time reader, first time poster. Out of curiosity (and concern being a legally armed citizen), what are your thoughts on the outcome of the citizen self-defense case you mentioned?

    I know there are restrictions on what you can say regarding this case as you are involved with it. But is there anything that husband could have done differently that might have prevented this case from going to trial? Or is it really just the District Attorney and some bad luck with the jury pool?

    On a complete side note but related to legally armed citizens; was there any particular reason why you mentioned you preferred CorBon back in “Shoot to Live” (1994?) and in “Choose your Ammunition Police Style” (2005) it didn’t make it onto the premium ammo section?

    Best of luck on your current cases,

    -Tim

  22. Tim, in response to your comment immediately above, I would speculate that if the shooter had told his side of the story at the scene, the case might not have gone as far as it did. As it was, the police department and the prosecutor’s office had only the complainants’ version of what happened, to go on.

    Cor-Bon has made some truly ground-breaking contributions to the ammo industry, but as you noted, we were talking about police-style ammunition selection, and that limits discussion to the major large-scale manufacturers.

    best,
    Mas

  23. Hi Mas !
    I live in Overland Park, KS (suburb of Kansas City, KS). Sometimes I get a callout late in the night or early morning. My company prohibits me from carrying a firearm for defense so I have to rely on the police.

    What I wanted to say was that every officer I have encountered on the O.P. Police Force has been very polite and professional. In fact at night if they see my truck and cones out they will stop and check to make sure everything is ok. My company doesn’t care about my safety so it’s nice to see that officers on night duty do.

    Mark

  24. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Although it doesn’t help the shooter involved, I’m sure there are a few of us here that are encouraged with our legal system knowing that had we been in a similar situation. Giving a brief account of what happened (and being mindful about details) might spare us the ordeal of a trial.

    It might just be me but courtroom survival seems almost more uncertain than street survival.

    Out of curiosity Mas, what ammunition do you prefer on and off-duty? I recently switched from 230 gr Golden Saber to 230 gr Gold Dot (.45) and 147 gr Golden Saber to 147 gr Gold Dot (9mm) mainly because of wider use by Law Enforcement and the bonded jacket.

  25. Mark:
    No surprise that you’ve had good experiences with your local police. Overland Park PD is one of the most professional, best-trained departments out there. If you ever run across Rick Staples, firearms instructor out there (though he might be retired by now), tell him I said hi. Great cop, great trainer, great shooter…you could learn a lot from him.

    Tim:
    Personally, I’m partial to the Winchester Ranger-T 230 grain hollow point and the Federal HST +P 230 grain hollow point in the .45 auto, and 127 grain Winchester Ranger-T +P+ in the 9mm. Unfortunately, all are hard to find during the current “ammo crunch.”

    best,
    Mas

  27. Mas:

    Kudos on your comments and service.

    I too wonder about how locality impacts attitude. I live in Texas, and I have never encountered an ” anti-gun” cop here, except for a federal officer from the east coast. That person wasnt a jerk because he was an officer, but I suspect he became an officer because he was a jerk – hopefully he has returned to his native environment.

    I was stopped by a Texas DPS Highway Patrol trooper late last Sunday night – he had noticed an expired registration sticker on the car I had just bought ( I closed the deal on Friday night and the tax office is closed on weekends).
    I pulled over , turned on my flashers and kept my hands on the steering wheel when he approached. I told him I had a CHL and was armed and the pistol was on my hip.

    His response : ” No problem- you are one of the good guys”.

    After looking at my license, we chatted a bit. Then he gave me a written warning and bid me good night and safe drive home.

    Texas DPS is always matter-of-fact, courteous and professional – even friendly when the find out I am a CHL holder, as are almost all of the municipal officers I have met in 14 years of carry.

    I hope most officers in most places have a similar attitude – you certainly help foster that.

    Thanks

    GKT

  28. Two points of confusion:

    1. In a criminal trial a vote of a majority to acquit results in a retrial?!

    2. In the comments above several suggestions were made that giving a brief statement on the scene of a defensive shooting could actually HELP a defendant. I thought the rule was NOT to say ANYTHING until you’ve had time to recover and retained a lawyer. Am I mistaken, or is this just a calculated risk either way?

  29. Hi David:

    Answering your points in order:

    1. In every jurisdiction I’ve been to in any sort of “courtroom capacity” in this country, a unanimous verdict is required to either convict or acquit.

    2. The traditional advice has been to shut up and say nothing after a self-defense shooting until you’ve “lawyered up.” However, that advice comes primarily from criminal defense lawyers, who pretty much have to say that because most of their clients are guilty as hell, and can’t say anything that would help them. My own experience in case after case is that the good guy who shot the bad guy is better off to briefly state who was the attacker, who was the intended victim, point out the evidence and the witnesses, and THEN respectfully decline to answer further questions until after consultation with legal counsel.

    The reasons for that, I’ve published in many articles and could probably make a book out of. I should probably devote at least a blog post to it in the future. The commentary section doesn’t provide sufficient space to explain the reasons.

    best,
    Mas