It was national news a few days ago when on a movie set, Alec Baldwin fired a shot from “a prop gun” that proved fatal to one staff person on the set, and wounded another.  According to one account, a single projectile passed through the fatally wounded woman and struck the surviving victim in the collarbone area. https://www.showbiz411.com/2021/10/22/exclusive-eyewitness-recounts-shooting-on-alec-baldwin-movie-set-one-bullet-ripped-through-both-victims

Let us set aside for a moment our feelings about Mr. Baldwin.  The man has a long reputation as a bully.  He is almost as loudly and rabidly anti-gun as he is anti-Trump.  As one of the gun owners he has vilified, I have no use for the man.

 As I write this we are hearing all sorts of as yet-unconfirmed reports that Baldwin had facetiously said something like “How about I just shoot you all” just before he fired.  Don’t consider anything until it has been verified!

There have been other prop gun tragedies on movie sets. One, decades ago, was the death of actor Jon-Eric Hexum.  One account had him playing Russian roulette with a blank loaded revolver, and in another version he was frustrated that things were taking too long on the set, and dramatically put the gun to his head as if to commit suicide, and pulled the trigger. When I went through an Advanced Officer Involved Shooting Investigation school in Los Angeles, our class got a briefing on that case from the detectives who investigated it.  We were told the blank cartridge in the Charter Arms Backpacker custom .44 Special revolver blew a plug of cranial bone the size of a quarter deep into Hexum’s brain.  He had been declared brain-dead before they pulled the plug on him. Some of us in the class thought he must have been brain-dead before he pulled the trigger.

That happened, as I recall, back when the police show “Hill Street Blues” was one of the most popular on TV. In two consecutive episodes, one ended when the despondent SWAT commander Howard, played by James B. Sikking,  puts a Colt Python .357 Magnum to his head and a shot is heard, ending the cliff-hanger. In the next week’s episode, the character appears, suitably chastened by his near death experience and with a little Band-Aid™ on his temple, and we learn that someone played a trick on him and loaded his gun with blanks.  Could Hexum have seen that episode, and been misled? I’ve always wondered.

Bruce Lee’s promising son Brandon was killed on a movie set by a bullet from a “prop gun,” a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum.  In an earlier scene, when the gun had to be seen from the front, it was loaded with dummy rounds (case, no powder, but bullet).  One version of the story is that the bullet wasn’t properly crimped and remained in its chamber of the revolver’s cylinder, unnoticed until the powerful powder charge of a blank cartridge drove it down the barrel and into Lee’s belly. Another version has it that a primer-only cartridge had driven the bullet into the barrel, and it was launched by a subsequent blank.

I have some familiarity with blank cartridges. I have on more than one occasion used blanks to fire at a remote camera (with no one behind it) to simulate a defendant’s view of a shooting or firing downrange where there was no safe backstop to perform a court demonstration of speed of fire from an unusual angle.  Each time the gun was scrupulously multi-checked and no human being was downrange in front of the muzzle.

My first article in GUNS magazine in the 1970s was titled “The Guns of Gordon’s War.” That was an obscure action movie in which semiautomatic guns like the Luger and the 1911 .45 were modified by master gunsmith Nolan Santy to operate with blank cartridges.  Part of making them work without the recoil of a bullet leaving the barrel was to put thick steel washers into the barrel to force more expanding gases backward. These in turn were likely to keep a bullet from exiting at lethal velocity, though the gun might have blown up if fired with a live cartridge. The flick Baldwin and company were making was reportedly a period Western set in the 1880s, so there would have been no semiautomatic weapons expected.

We may not like Alec Baldwin, but we have no right to pre-judge him. Let’s wait for the facts to come out. Condolences to those who were hurt in this sad, avoidable incident.

More details here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10121545/Production-crew-walked-Alec-Baldwin-movie-set-hours-tragic-shooting.html .

103 COMMENTS

  1. ULTIMATELY IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF WHOM EVER HAS THE WEAPON!!! It does not matter if they were told it was ‘unloaded’. The one handed the gun should ALWAYS check to make sure.

    Baldwin is not some young 15 year old…. I am sure he knows which end of the gun is the one holds and which end is what fires. It was his responsibility to check to make sure IT WAS UNLOADED.

    Plus there was horseplay on the set.

    Ignorance of safe gun handling and horseplay is the cause of much grief.

    • Deaf Smith,

      If Alec Baldwin had checked the gun, would he have known he was looking at a live round in the chamber, and not a blank? I have no experience with blanks. When I check a gun, I look for an empty chamber or chambers, in the case of a revolver. Alec’s gun was not supposed to be empty, it was supposed to have blanks in it, so he was not looking for an empty chamber. That makes his task more complicated than mine, and I’ll be he knows less about guns than I do.

      Bottom line, the armorer on the set did not do her job.

      • Roger, Baldwin was told it was a ‘cold’ gun. I.E. no ammo of any kind in it.

        Hence Baldwin would have seen a chamber with a blank/live ammo and then called the armor over to eject it (or do it himself.)

  2. I have several thoughts about this incident.

    First, I am struck, again, about how ignorant most anti-gun people are in regard to firearms and firearm-handling. This may be partly responsible for their anti-gun attitudes. It is human nature to hate and fear the unknown. Ignorance about firearms may well contribute to the obvious hate and fear that anti-gunners have of them.

    Of course, their left-wing ideology is also to blame. Leftists view humans as mere puppets who dance powerlessly to social and environmental forces. This leads to the worldview that humans are eternal victims. Victims of poverty, racism, sexism, drug and alcohol abuse, gun violence, etc., etc. etc. Left-wing ideology is all about eternal victim-hood. It is the opposite of right-wing ideology which is all about personal responsibility.

    So, their ignorance about firearms supports their worldview of firearms as a “victimizing” social force. The result is unreasoning hatred and fear of firearms.

    Alec Baldwin demonstrated his gun-handling ignorance in this incident. No person who was properly trained in firearm-handling would have made his mistakes. How many gun safety rules did he violate? Let me list a few:

    1) Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. Any trained person who was handed a handgun and was told it was safe would not accept that statement at face value. A trained person would have manually checked the condition of the handgun, personally, before handling the firearm.

    2) Never point a firearm as something you are not willing to destroy.

    3) Be sure of your target and the area behind it.

    4) Keep your finger off the trigger until your are ready to fire.

    No doubt he violated other rules as well. The above are just those i can think of off the top of my head.

    Do not expect Alec Baldwin to learn anything from this incident. He will not. As a leftists, his ideology colors his worldview. I can tell you exactly how he will react. As a VICTIM as dictated by his ideology. He will think, well, for years I have been preaching against gun-violence. Now, I am a VICTIM of gun-violence myself. That EVIL GUN grabbed hold of me and made me into an unwilling KILLER.

    He will ignore all the gun-handling mistakes that he made and disclaim any responsibility for his own role in this tragedy. Instead, he will REDEEM himself, in his own mind, by doubling-down on his anti-gun attitude.

    You can expect him to become even more strident about the evils of gun ownership. He will become even more rabidly anti-gun. I can already see him at speaking events, before groups of similar-thinking anti-gun actors, telling his tragic story about how gun-violence reached out and touched his life and turned him into an unwilling killer.

    Gabby Giffords did not learn a thing from her involvement in a shooting. Her reaction was to double-down on the gun-control. I can GUARANTEE you that Alec Baldwin will do the same.

    As they say, “A leopard does not change its spots.”. Neither does a Leftists reconsider their ideology. The rose-colored glasses of left-wing ideology always covers their eyes and colors their mind. The one question that a leftist will never ask is: Could I have been wrong?

    • IIRC, Gabby Giffords had actually been somewhat pro-gun before the incident.

      Ronald Reagan didn’t say anything anti-gun until he had Alzheimer’s. Jim Brady had been pro-gun prior to being shot by a would-be assassin. Correlation between brain damage/deterioration and anti-gun attitudes? Correlation is not causation, but…

      • As I recall, initially even AFTER the shooting, Gabby Giffords was not overtly anti-gun until she was pushed in that direction by a leftist husband and other anti-gun forces!

      • I did not mean to suggest a correlation between brain damage and being an advocate for firearms-prohibition. That is a medical question for which I am unqualified to speak.

        However, there is a correlation between the left-wing worldview and firearms-prohibition. Left-wing ideology is built upon, as I noted above, mankind being a helpless victim of social and environmental forces. It denies that man has any control over his individual life and undercuts any thought of personal or criminal responsibility. Which explains why leftists so easily excuse criminal behavior and are always willing to support ideas like defunding the police, reducing prison populations, reducing or eliminating bail, stopping capital punishment, etc.

        Gabby Giffords may not have been a strident anti-gunner before being shot but she was a leftist. She was a member of the Democrat Party and supported left-wing causes when she was in congress. So, my point was that someone who leans left will not likely revise their stance after a shooting incident. The most likely response will be to “double-down”.

        Gabby Giffords was a leftist prior to being shot. She doubled-down on the ideology after being shot and became a firearms-prohibitionist. She did not “change her spots”. Rather, her spots became darker.

        Alec Baldwin is a leftist. The only “lesson” that he will learn from this incident is to double-down on his ideology too. He was a firearms-prohibitionist prior to this incident. Expect him to become a RABID, foam-at-the-mouth, firearms-prohibitionist after this event.

        Do not expect him to re-evaluate his ideology and learn any lessons about personal responsibility from this tragic incident. Most leftists are incapable of learning any such lessons. They are seeped in the ideology of eternal victim-hood which leaves them with a “blind-spot” when it comes to taking individual responsibility.

        Our left-wing society will excuse any leftist, like Alec Baldwin, when they go wrong. If he had been a conservative Republican, he might be facing manslaughter charges right now. That won’t happen because he has his left-wing “Get out of Jail Free” card in his pocket.

        The left-wing media will excuse his careless mistakes. Alec Baldwin will also excuse himself. In his mind, he will “make amends” by doubling-down on the firearms-prohibition. Fighting the “Good Fight” to disarm the American People and destroy our 2nd Amendment Rights. What else do you really expect?

      • Freedom is dangerous. We elect to live in a gun-owning society. Accidents will occur, criminal shootings and suicides will occur with guns because of our freedom.

        We live in a car-driving society. Accidents will occur, criminal attacks with vehicles running over crowds, and suicides by sitting in a closed garage with a running car will occur because of our freedom.

        Because of the negative things associated with freedom, I do not want less freedom, I WANT MORE OF IT.

    • Excellent points TN Man, and I didn’t know that Brady had been pro until Hinckley came along or that Giffords has been led along by her, uh, other half. I’ll be watching this one closely, let’s see where it is a year from now and if any kind of charges are filed.

  3. I’ll pre-judge him just like any cop, prosecutor and judge would do to me as a citizen instead of a human debris communist actor….he murdered that woman by not properly handling and know how to use the firearm he was in full control of. He’s a murderer and just because he is a Bolshevik Hollywood actor we shouldn’t suddenly give him any amount of respect or consideration of what may have happened…again if that was any citizen they’d be under a jail somewhere waiting for trial while Baldwin and his radical communist friends would be screaming for us to be given a life sentence and all our freedoms to be taken away .

    • Absolutely ZERO mercy for this fool. I think Congress SHOULD outlaw gun violence in movies. It’s ridiculous to have a movie with 50 dead bodies on the floor and then the main actor comes out against guns. Only pro gun when they profit off the violence.

    • David,
      (Your point is well made, crystal clear, and will certainly be taken in the way you’ve intended it by any reasonable reader, including me. So, forgive me for being outrageous and what might appear to be picky in what follows–intended only as a reflection of and response to the event–if only vaguely–on which this article is based—that perhaps safe and responsible handling of firearms–even non-real ones—can never be taken as a given or for granted, and that events leading to accidents can and do sometimes outpace even the most astute imaginations. Thanks, David. All the best, Glenn.)
      Are we sure about that squirt gun? A lot depends on the “someone’s”—shooter and target– involved in any given situation. What’s our reaction if someone not representative of the demographics of the typical squirt gun user suddenly points a squirt gun at us in a parking lot–perhaps at a bit of a distance and under less-than-ideal lighting conditions? Will we visually examine the object in hand before continuing to assess our predicament, to verify whether or not the object is a real? (I initially think of squirt guns as bright green, orange, or yellow plastic, and of course, used by younger children; however, some have long been produced to look eerily realistic, at least at some distance. Same goes for non-squirt toy guns. And with some brands of real firearms now being offered in a rainbow of colors…)
      Switching scenarios, did we fill it ourself? With water? If not, are we absolutely sure someone didn’t fill it with some solvent he/she happened upon in the garage or under the sink–a pesticide, bleach, drain opener, or who knows what flammable liquid? Highly unlikely, but perhaps there’s that kid out there with a squirt gun–bored of working with common H2O, intrigued with new aromas and the interesting color hues that show through the frame of that translucent toy when topped with variety of liquids other than water–or his/her particularly sharp friend who hypothesizes that a pesticide filled weapon might prove more effective on those high-hanging spiders that have proved to be impervious to water. Extremely unlikely. Impossible?
      To sum up, 100 percent guaranteed safety can only be achieved in the midst of 100 percent impossible. Impossible? Yes.

      • Glenn in TN,

        I agree. You could actually cause trouble, if the wrong conditions are present, by quickly forming your hand into a “finger gun,” and pointing your finger at someone. Maybe they feel threatened by your gesture, at a distance, at night, and call the police, or draw their real gun and aim it at you.

        I’ve imagined doing this as a joke, and decided it is not a good idea in today’s politically-charged climate.

  6. Now I did hear that there were two
    NDs that week and the regular production crew also walked off the set in protest about another matter. If that were the case, their armorer shares some of the blame. If he abandoned the set leaving firearms behind in the hands of ignorant and untrained people that is negligence. He should have either secured the firearms and left access to someone trained in firearms handling or taken them with him. If he just abandoned lethal weapons on the set, he should have known better.

    • TJ,

      The armorer on the set was 24-year-old Hannah Gutierrez Reed. Reports say that her father was an armorer, and trained her.

      • Not sure how well her training took. Apparently on a movie set she was working on under another armorer Nicholas Cage asked for her to be fired after several incidents, including not announcing that firearms were being used and them being fired while those around had no hearing protection on/in.

  7. Thank you for weighing in on this. It’s a great opportunity to use this tragedy to educate people who would otherwise never think about guns.

    As much as I loathe this guy Baldwin for his politics and sense of entitlement, I would not wish this situation on my worst enemy. He has my prayers, along with the families of the camera operator and director. Nobody should have to go through this situation. That said, if he had spent an hour during his long, entitled career with an NRA instructor he would have learned the basics and that young lady would still be alive. My father taught me in 1970, as soon as I could hold a BB gun. As a kid, to deviate from these rules was the worst thing we could do in our house, and we shot whenever we wanted to in the backyard.

    Jeff Cooper’s Rules apply in all situations with something that can be deadly

    (From a poster above, and I’ve added a keyword)

    LOADED 1) Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. Any trained person who was handed a handgun and was told it was safe would not accept that statement at face value. A trained person would have manually checked the condition of the handgun, personally, before handling the firearm.

    MUZZLE DISCIPLINE 2) Never point a firearm at something you are not willing to destroy.

    TARGET 3) Be sure of your target and the area behind it.

    TRIGGER DISCIPLINE 4) Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

    I’ve also seen the last one written as “Keep the booger hook off of the bang switch until it’s “Go” time.”

    • “Jeff Cooper’s Rules apply in all situations with something that can be deadly.”

      Some people are now saying that we need to revise Jeff Cooper’s Four(4) Rules of Gun Safety in light of recent events. Specifically, they are saying that we need to add a Fifth Rule as follows:

      WEAPON DISCIPLINE 5) – Never hand Alec Baldwin a firearm. Not even a “Prop Gun”.

      We don’t want “Cross-draw Alec” to carve any more notches on the handle of his hogleg! 🙂

  8. Hopefully the police will conduct a thorough investigation and announce their findings in detail. Reportedly the armorer was Thell Reed’s daughter. If it was a live round that was fired, I can’t think of any valid reason for it being on site, much less loaded in the gun. Was Baldwin pointing the gun at the woman who was killed as part of a scene being rehearsed or was he being an a-hole & pointed it at her because he was pissed & thought he’d scare her? With reports of part of the crew walking off set it appears that multiple safety violations occurred. Very sad state of affairs for that young lady & her family.

  9. Baldwin’s actions are not remotely defensible. He pointed the firearm at someone working on the film, not acting in said film. Did any part of the script call for that? Doubtful. He failed all of Cooper’s 4 rules. And if the gun had been misfiring on set as reported, why in hell was he touching it at all? Perhaps if he’d spent a fraction of the time spent being nasty on Twitter on learning safe firearm handling, this wouldn’t have happened.

    The man is despicable, but setting that aside, this tragedy was 100% avoidable. Negligent homicide is a reasonable charge, and no doubt a lighter one that I’d get under the same circumstances. Hollyweird will most likely protect him.

    • Uness “Hossywood” spreads soe signficnt cash around, they wil have no effect on the outcome of this incident.It happened in New Mexico, so it will be up to loca, county or state officials to decide what to do. One time Hollywood takes a hike…. The action occurred in NM, the consequences will also happen in NM

    • I’ve been seeing the incident called a “misfire” all over the place. It’s not, and any attempt to call it that takes the blame off of whoever is responsible.

      A “misfire” means something was wrong with the gun: the gun was not operating properly — it doesn’t go “bang” when the trigger is pulled, or it goes “bang” when the trigger is NOT pulled — or the ammunition was not operating properly for any variety of reasons.

      By all accounts, the gun in question operated normally. It didn’t go “bang” if the trigger wasn’t pulled, and it went “bang” every time the trigger was pulled with a round — live or blank — in the cylinder. I’ve seen unconfirmed reports that the cast/crew used this gun and others for recreational shooting after-hours, using normal ammunition … which might explain how a live round snuck its way in, while confirming that the gun was not prone to misfiring. It also means it’s not a “prop gun” so much as a “real gun used as a prop”. Other unconfirmed reports say the live ammunition was stored in the same “armory” locker as the blanks, and that the lead armorer is extremely inexperienced — it’s her first production as lead armorer, only her second in her “armorer” career — and there were “safety incidents” at the last one as well, including a negligent discharge.

      Overall, the standards on the “Rust” set were lacking, to say the least. More accurately, they were downright dangerous.

      I have three observations based on this:
      1. While Mr. Baldwin, being the person who pulled the trigger, bears full responsibility — whatever that is deemed to be — for the death and injury, the safety conditions on set (or lack thereof) rendered this outcome inevitable.
      2. These conditions are the natural consequence of excoriating “gun culture” and weeding it out of their cloistered society — nobody knows how to handle guns safely, so naturally, nobody does.
      3. Because Hollywood is insulated from the rest of the world, this is the only experience many actors and actresses have with guns and “gun culture”; they never see the lifestyle of safety and personal responsibility, so they think killing and “accidents” are the whole of it. Add that the on-set “expert” may or may not be incompetent and that basic safety rules are routinely ignored, and it’s therefore understandable that most in Hollywood believe that guns are inherently dangerous and should be prohibited.

      I’m not saying they’re correct; only that their view is understandable based on their narrow, limited experience with guns and “gun culture”.

  10. Alec was also a producer in this film and so perhaps bears additional responsibility for the incident beyond being an actor handed a loaded gun. I say perhaps because I just am not aware of a very famous actor being convicted of any associated negligent homicide charge due to any particular unintentional homicide that occured on a movie set from a firearm. Is anyone aware of one? I just don’t know and haven’t been able to find one offhand and am no historian of law.

    The fact this has happened post Brandon Lee really serves to impeach his conduct because Brandon’s death was the result of the presence of a squib, a much rarer error that arguably wasn’t within reasonably expected layman knowledge of firearms and caused the promulgation of greater safety standards industry-wide. And it was almost 30 years ago. Alec just fired a live round into an unobstructed barrel while pointing it in the direction of another human being. But being able to ascertain If that will translate into any or greater criminal culpability I dunno.

    Currently known facts and in particular a crew walkout over allegedly lax safety standards prior to the tragedy certainly makes for a very bad prognosis in a civil action. Reports of him sitting there saying “Why was I handed a hot gun!?” portray a man immediately uncaring of the grave suffering of someone else desperate to shift blame and avoid anything that remotely suggests responsibility. But I imagine he said other things too immediately after the discharge, perhaps not so supportive of such an apathetic character.

    Anyone else associated with causing this can be expected to quickly dump any potential faults of their own onto others if they think they can get away with it, and if they can all pour it on one man, well it would seem to support everyone else’s allegation against him which in turn armors their defensibility as well if they are lying, exaggerating, or omitting. In addition it will limit the damage of their lie to one person already unliked by many before this, or so they think if they had a part in creating this tragedy and are going to continue working in that industry.

    On the other hand, imagine you are an amateur film maker making a movie with a car chase but you didn’t or weren’t able to get some localities permission to use some particular street and close it down to other traffic to drive at an otherwise unsafe speed on for the film. You choose to just do it anyway and wait until the dead of night when there is little to no traffic. This is the equivalent of not compelling everyone who handles a firearm on set to be trained in very basic gun safety principles to include the loading and unloading of any specific firearm they are to use and recognition of the visual difference between different loadings for it.

    The actor driving the vehicle, aware that if he performs this dangerous vehicle stunt while someone else may be on the road it will endanger them and himself and any pedestrians in the general potential path of the vehicle, the equivalent of layman knowledge of a firearms potential deadliness, performs the stunt after having been told an intersection is clear by 2 people in the vehicle with him, who have no way to know that this intersection is clear because they didn’t check, the equivalent usefulness of 2 people who said a gun was clear because someone else told them it was and didn’t check themselves. This actor then performs the stunt, knowing these 2 people did not check, slamming into the side of a minivan at 60mph whose driver thoughtlessly drove past a red light while distracted, killing an entire family.

    Is the person who told him it was safe to do what they knew or should have known was an immediately dangerous activity without having basis to establish that claim of safety responsible for their death? Or the person who actually drove the vehicle knowing it was unsafe to do so on a road he had not satisfactorily and reasonably PROVEN TO HIMSELF was clear of such obstructions?

    Absolutely nobody forced Alec Baldwin to pull the trigger without checking and there is no lawful way for them to compel such an act of him and no one claims they tried to make him do by physical force. In my judgement of currently known facts he is the only individual possibly guilty of, and is perhaps criminally responsible for the avoidable death of a young lady in prime of life. He could have stopped and checked it himself. He didn’t do it. It doesn’t matter what established procedure was or is on set. Homicide law doesn’t discriminate if you are making a movie or not. You are responsible for your own actions, and if you kill someone in the hypothetical scenario I described or in what the currently apparent circumstances Alec Baldwin did, I believe you shall be due in criminal court on a negligent homicide charge of some sort.

    Mainstream media has immediately made a point of referring to the weapon as a “Prop gun.” The phrasing implies to the layman no one would have expected it to be capable of firing a live round. A true “prop gun” should be incapable of firing or even chambering if it was an automatic. It’s getting put out much in the way they described George Zimmerman as a “white hispanic,” although at least this description wasn’t created out of nowhere specifically for this.
    What it was just a gun.
    Used as a prop.
    Improperly.

    I say all that but Mas has the right of it. We all like to see the big guys fall, but after what happened to George Zimmerman and others, we should know better than to think of preliminary information as remotely authoritative. I hope others will join me in praying God comfort the family of the deceased and embraces her into his keeping eternal. And maybe even for Alec too, even if we would like to see him convicted. It’s true he did not intend this to happen. He now will endure forever after aware at all times he, an old man, caused a human life that had just begun to be forever undone with his own hands.

  11. As always Mas, you are the voice of reason. I can’t count the number of times that I’ve echoed your teachings by telling people to “wait till all the facts are in.” Regardless of the cause, however, I’m sure Baldwin and the Hollywood elite will try to place the blame on everyone else. I’m sure there will be lawsuits against the gun and ammo manufacturer, the armorer, the production company and many more. Oh yeah, rest assured, Baldwin will probably become the new head of some rabid anti-gun group.

  13. There are so many unconfirmed statements floating around we need to wait for the investigation results. The only thing we should do/say until then is our condolences to the family of the woman killed and wishes for a speedy recovery to the injured man.

  14. I’m dying to know the actual particulars since the armorer was Thell Reed’s daughter.

    If My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ handed me a firearm and told me it was empty, I’d still check it.

    • Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is 24 and worked on one film as an armorer. I read that she said she almost did not take that first job because she didn’t know if she was ready for the responsibility. I know we all have to start somewhere and I know her dad knows his stuff. But geez, like you, I want to know more.

      A search warrant said she is the one who said “cold gun”, meaning it was safe to pull the trigger on the set.

  15. There’s a lot of misused terminology being thrown about.

    “Misfire”: no, it fired just as intended.

    “Prop gun”: no, a prop gun cannot chamber or fire real ammo. Even if it legally remains a Title I firearm because that’s now it began life, a prop gun is not a “real firearm” as we think of it.

    “Squib”: a movie blank is not going to drive a projectile with enough force to fatally through-and-through one person and seriously wound someone behind her.

    There’s no excuse for having live ammunition on the set. My paranoid mind has to wonder if the labor dispute involved some sabotage.

    All that said, I feel terrible for the cinematographer and her family. I’m not at all concerned with Baldwin’s grief. Karma, schadenfreude, whatever…

    • I’ve seen unconfirmed reports that the cast and crew used some of the “prop guns” for recreational shooting after-hours (among other things, that would indicate that the gun was not a “prop gun” as we know the term; it was a real gun used as a prop). Included in those were statements that the after-hours target ammunition was stored in the same “armory” locker as the blanks. If those claims bear out, that could explain how a live round was available to be loaded into the gun.

      Not an excuse, by any means, for there is none. But it could be an explanation.

      It does not, however, explain how a live round made it onto the “shooting stage” (pardon the term). The gun’s condition (unloaded or loaded, and if loaded, with what) should be verified by every single person who handles the gun. There’s no way any loaded gun should be declared “cold”. There’s no way any live round should be confused with a blank (related, there’s no reason live ammunition should be stored next to blank ammo — or indeed, anywhere on the set — and plenty of valid reasons it should NOT be so stored).

      On those points, there is no satisfactory excuse. Just like with the Four Rules, multiple safety failures contributed to the shooting, any one of which going a different way could have prevented it. Call it “a perfect storm of firearm incompetence”. Every single person who handled the guns bears some guilt, but the ultimate responsibility is on the person who pulled the trigger while pointing the gun in an unsafe direction.

  16. Very simple; as my late Dad taught me when I was very young, all guns are loaded. I have treated guns that way for over 60 years (even after checking to see that they were NOT loaded).

  17. All I know is, I ALWAYS observe the 4 Rules of firearm safety religiously, and can not imagine a scenario where someone would hand me a supposedly “empty” firearm that I would not check for myself. The fact that an actor with no firearms experience is handed a fully functional weapon by a so-called expert to play act with is shocking, and a recipe for this kind of tragedy.

    But then, I am not a rabid anti-Second Amendment hoplophobic hollywood libtard, either.

  18. Mr. Ayoob is 100 percent right in his comments. We must deal in facts and we won’t have those for a while. We best protect our 2nd Amendment rights when we deal in facts. We must pray for the deceased and her family. We can honor all victims of negligent discharge by doubling all of our efforts to review and practice safe firearm practices. Thank you Mr. Ayoob for all you have done and for all you do.

  19. A chain of events with a catastrophic ending.

    There was more than one safety failure here. That much is clear. Other than that I’ll wait for all the evidence before making a decision.

    With that said I’m sure the blame will fall upon someone further down the food chain than the one ultimately responsible.

    Vince Dagiel

    • Yes, Vince, as the saying goes in the military: “you know what rolls downhill.” How often do you see blame admitted rather than placed on others, and confessions of error volunteered? The leftist politicians’ motto seems to be “never, ever admit that you made a mistake yourself, just blame Trump.” Often in films of yesteryear when shots were supposedly fired, the shooters visibly diverted their aim from their intended victim, deliberately aiming low and away. You never heard of a Humphrey Bogart actually shooting an Edward G. Robinson on the set, either. Apparently the actors’ aim was as reliably off as it appeared.

      • Speculation about a possible assassination is often dubious, if not dangerous. One question yet unanswered, however, seems to be who was struck first with exactly what. Another is how far the initial impact was from the shooter. Also, remember the presumed shot into the abdomen of Lee Harvey Oswald? Any such wound in an abdomen, cutting a major artery like an aorta, tends to be highly life-threatening, and is a traditional assassin’s choice. The Alec Baldwin event bears more scrutiny, if only to exonerate.

  20. Expect a major shift in how films are produced in the U.S.

    The economics of insurance and legal liability could change screenplays to shift to knives or CGI muzzle flash. Expect a new requirement for everyone on set from catering to drivers to actors to be required to complete and maintain evidence of basic firearms training.
    And due to costs, firearms will be segregated to the biggest budget films. Or it could all go overseas.

    The sad irony is that this tragedy may have been avoided if the shooter[a major gun control advocate]had basic fire arms training.

    • It’s ironic that the “major gun safety advocate” you mention — as with many “gun safety advocates” — has zero training in gun safety.

      It’s almost like they don’t want to be “tainted” by exposure to healthy gun culture. If they were to learn how to handle firearms safely and responsibly, they would have to acknowledge that firearms can be handled safely and responsibly, which undermines many of their arguments.

      It makes for a stronger “virtue signalling” position if they remain pure and unsullied by the dirty “gun culture”.

  21. I would like to know if the unfortunate, deceased female victim of this incident had any previous involvement with either of the Clintons.

  23. Wendy Rogers
    @WendyRogersAZ
    “Hillary Clinton, Dick Cheney, and Alec Baldwin go hunting…. How does that play out?”

    • “Hillary Clinton, Dick Cheney, and Alec Baldwin go hunting…. How does that play out?”

      That is an easy one. Dick Cheney and Alec Baldwin both commit suicide (Arkancide?). Each one shoots himself, twice, in the back of the head. Hillary Clinton disclaims all knowledge and the cell phones of everyone are all, mysteriously, wiped clean.

      All the Media “Talking Heads” celebrate Hillary’s fortunate escape. The Justice Department does a complete investigation and, the next day, returns the official verdict that both Dick Cheney and Alec Baldwin died by suicide. Within three days, the incident is never mentioned in the media again.

      Based upon our recent history, anyone could predict how this would go! 🙂

      • Hillary’s cell phone is bleached and smashed with a hammer, and she wanders in the woods for days escaping sniper fire. Wait, didn’t something like this happen before?

  24. Most would say that Alec Baldwin will never be the same human being after this and it will change his life forever. Hopefully he will gain understanding and tolerance for other people.

    • “Hopefully he will gain understanding and tolerance for other people.”

      I will be shocked if he does. I don’t expect any soul-searching or apologies from Alec Baldwin.

      He is a Leftist. Being a Leftist means never having to say that you are sorry. That is one of the major perks about being one.

      That is why every Leftist is issued a “Get out of Jail Free” card. 🙂

  26. Seems clear to me that Baldwin’s view of firearms is context based.
    In the hands of you or me he views a firearm is a terribly potent, lethal monstrosity that will cause all sorts of mayhem.
    In Baldwin’s hands he views a firearm as just an innocent tool like a stapler, only one step away from a toy.

  28. The press is already setting up a young woman named Hannah Gutierrez Reed to be the fall girl? She was employed as the armorer on the set. Her father who trained her is alleged to be a very experienced armorer.
    Watch what the Hollywood press agents and lawyers do to this poor woman.

    • It’s too soon to know who was the armorer (or prop master) on-site. It seems like there may have been a change in staff (from union to non-union?) just before this incident. Details are changing hourly. See this story:

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10122433/Gun-killed-filmmaker-Halyna-Hutchins-set-Rust-vintage-Colt-pistol.html

      No matter who set up the prop gun, it seems to me that Alec Baldwin still bears a lot of the responsibility. He was the Producer as well as the Actor who fired the fatal shot. He is, ultimately, responsible for staffing problems and staffing screw-ups.

      Still, as a leftist, he does have that handy “Get out of Jail Free” card in his pocket. I still think it likely that he will duck any criminal charges. I do expect him to be slammed with a “Wrongful Death” Civil Suit, however. His bank account is headed for a big ding!

      Maybe all of his Left-Wing Hollywood buddies will start a “Crowd Fund” to help pay for his legal expenses?

    • Thell Reed is a bit more than just a “very experienced armorer.” He was one of the masters from Jeff Cooper’s “Leatherslaps.”

  29. There is no such thing as an accidental discharge. This was a negligent discharge, and Baldwin should be charged, convicted, and imprisoned. Anyone who works with, uses, or handles firearms, should be trained in basic firearms safety and handling. The onus was on Baldwin to ensure he had sufficient and adequate firearms training. The armorer merely stores and provides the firearm, and should not be held accountable, unless they left the firearm available, or provided live ammunition. Also, any firearm used in make believe, should also be make believe. Unfortunately, in the end, the gun will be blamed and demonized. Baldwin will walk, and become even more rabid about banning firearms. How is it that competent, trained, lawful citizens, should not be trusted with a firearm, but an unqualified crappy “actor” should be allowed to use a firearm for authenticity? It’s strange how a simple mechanical tool, that is unable to do anything without human intervention, (just like any tool) can be vilified and blamed for the inadequacy of human stupidity.

  30. Interestingly enough I understand that the woman murdered happens (-ed) to be the wife of a lawyer just indicted by Special Prosecutor Durham in regard to Hillary Klinton’s 2016 campaign.
    The lawyer was a part of the Klinton campaign and would have much inside knowledge of the goings on. Given the number of unsolved murders and mysterious deaths surrounding the Klintons this would seemingly fall into that category as well.

  31. Loaded on purpose, maybe. Not by accident? Someone on the crew drying to drive a point home about that walk off? Awfully close in time to their alleged “strike” regarding safety violations.

    I can picture someone *wanting* the gun to go off, scare everyone sh*tless, force change — not realizing Alec would be “covering” someone when it went off.

    Not judging Alec. Not jumping to conclusions. Just waiting, listening, for something I wonder if it wasn’t the reason that gun was loaded in the first place. Possibility? — Have to wait and see, like everybody else.

  32. MAS:

    With all of your experience, the muzzle line of a gun must have crossed you at least once in a non-confrontational circumstance.

    If so, how did you handle it(them)?

    • With dummy guns in disarming/retention training, it’s part for the course. Same with Simunitions. A few times I’ve taken the gun away from the person who crossed me. At a gun show, it’s just something you have to put up with.

  35. I have to confess that I am experiencing a huge amount of schadenfreude as a result of this incident.

    I know that I should not feel this way. One poor woman is dead, her family is in mourning, and another man is injured. This has been a terrible tragedy.

    Mea Culpa! I don’t want to be a Bad Person.

    However, you have to admit, given that it is Alec Baldwin at the center of this mess, it just could not have happened to a nicer guy! 🙂

  36. There’s no question that the media will spin it in way: “Yea see guns are dangerous, and cannot be trusted no matter who’s hands they are in.”
    The biggest question for me is; Why did you point the weapon at another human being and then pull the trigger Mr. Baldwin?
    The litigation the litigation,,, the,,,

  37. Don’t worry. Danny Glover, Sean Penn, Samuel Jackson, Tim Robbins, and many other ‘nice liberal guys’ carelessly using firearms in movies are waiting for their turns too. Paraphrasing Mr. T. ” I pity the poor victims”.

  38. I don’t like Alec Baldwin’s politics, but I wish him no ill will. I would love for him to see the error of his ways, repent, and become a Patriot and/or a Christian. This is a terrible tragedy. I would wish it on no one. Well, if an ISIS member gets killed by friendly fire, I guess that would be OK. But, I feel bad for smart Alec, and wish him well.

    I do want him to suffer for his political beliefs. I want him to see how the country is worse off under Biden than it was under Trump. Maybe Biden will raise his taxes. Maybe Baldwin will see family members or fellow Americans groan under oppressive Leftist ideas. We already see the decline of quality of life in American, Democrat-run cities.

    Smart Alec mocked Trump, but Trump got more minorities employed, and their wages rose, also. Smart Alec should see he was on the wrong side of the issues. But, he is too blind. The ideas Alec likes were also liked by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Chavez and Maduro. Alec is a loser, and he is in league with losers. Hey, Alec! Shut up and act!

    • “We already see the decline of quality of life in American, Democrat-run cities. ”

      It is not just in the Democrat-run cities or the Blue States. I live in a Red State and I can see a decline in quality of life since the Biden Administration took office. I see inflation steadily pushing up prices. I see bare shelves in my local Publix Store where before, under Trump, they bulged full with multiple choices. Of course, we also continue to see shortages of firearms, ammo and reloading supplies.

      I see people forced to wear masks to conform. People forced into being vaccinated. I have a friend who works for the Federal Government (The FHWA). He has already had Covid-19 and has natural immunity. He does not want to be forcible vaccinated just to retain his job but that is what is happening. He is at retirement age but was wanting to work another year. However, he told me that he would go ahead and retire before being forcible vaccinated.

      I hear people everywhere who are worried about the future of America. Who are losing heart and fear that America is in a steady decline. I hear grandparents who tell me that they fear for the World in which their grandchildren will live.

      Yet, Leftists like Alec Baldwin continue to clutch onto their perverse, upside-down view of the World and of morality. They continue to indoctrinate and brain-wash our children under the pretense that they are providing an education. They continue to flood the airwaves with their lies and propaganda.

      Do you want to see the level of perversity of their minds? Do you want to see just how deep the “Rabbit Hole” goes? Then read this:

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/opinions-america-s-gun-culture-is-priming-us-for-authoritarianism/ar-AAPXSXB

      This is the purest horse manure! It is the Marxist/Socialist Policies, of the Democrats and their Globalist Cabal, that are “priming us for authoritarianism”! America’s gun culture is one of the few remaining barriers that is standing in the way of their totalitarianism. Upside down to the MAX!

      • TN_MAN,

        Thankfully, I live in a bubble. No bare shelves here. Everyone is happy, going around spending money in restaurants. Masks are optional. I know bad times are coming, and I have prepared for them as much as my budget will allow.

        Many of us are Trump supporters. We know what is going on, and I even think the other side knows pretty much what is going on. But, for now, life is almost normal. We do bite our tongues in order to avoid conflicts. There are very few bumper stickers or T-shirts with political slogans on them, because most of us don’t want to trigger others. However, American flags and “F*** Joe Biden” flags are fairly common flying behind pickup trucks.

      • @ Roger Willco – “I live in a bubble.”

        I expect that all of our bubbles will soon start to pop. I am not the only one to notice bare shelves at my local Publix Store. See this article:

        https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2021/10/28/bare-shelves-will-make-this-a-merry-nothingmas-n2598089

        The author of this article, Kurt Schlichter, lives in the People’s Republic of Kalifornia. No doubt, what he sees, locally, is much worse than what I am seeing in my Red State.

        Wonder how bad it will have to get before people wake up to the wholesale robbery of the middle-class that the American Left is staging? How bad does it have to get to trigger a move for positive change? I guess we will be finding out sometime in the immediate future!

    • “Smart Alec should see he was on the wrong side of the issues. But, he is too blind.”

      It may be my schadenfreude again, but I see the finger of fate in this tragedy.

      For years, Alec Baldwin has railed against gun-owners, the NRA, and the Firearms Industry. He has danced in the blood of the victims of mass-murderers. He has said that we are responsible for all of the “Gun Violence” in America. He has accused us and said that we have the blood of the innocent victims on our hands.

      Now, look at what has happened. It is Alec Baldwin, himself, that is guilty of “Gun Violence”. He is the one who wielded the “Evil Gun”. He is the one who has the blood of innocent victims on his hands.

      It reminds me of what the Good Book says about fate:

      Galatians 6:7 – Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

      Boy, karma is a real bitch, isn’t she?

  39. Let’s not get to excited by the “latest breaking news” in this incident. Winston Churchill had a pity comment about “news” and had been a war correspondent when he reflected that: “Journalists are the semi-literate cretins hired to fill up the space between the advertisements.”

    This sorry event took place because every person who handled the firearm in question didn’t verify the condition as required in firearms safety rule one. However, remember that the reason we do this is because Murphy is an optimist. Several months ago I was handed a firearm by a state certified firearms instructor. That the bolt was closed, should have been a clue, but I cleared the firearm out of habit. A live round popped out. Unfortunately, the individual didn’t take ownership.

    Finally, commentary from a real lawyer. Link verified to go to source.
    http://jonathanturley.org/corners-were-being-cut-baldwin-shooting-already-has-the-makings-a-blockbuster-tort-action

  41. I listened to the Press Briefing which was delivered today by New Mexico authorities. A few new facts came to light. Here is my take-a-way:

    1) Three guns were recovered from the movie set by authorities. One was a non-functional “dummy gun” version of the Single Action Army (SAA) design. One was a SAA revolver that had been modified to fire blank ammo. One (the one used by Alec Baldwin) was a real, functional revolver. It was a SAA clone made by the Italian firm of Pietta. It was chambered in .45 LC.

    2) About 500 rounds of mixed “ammunition” was recovered from the movie set. The ammo is believed to be a mix of dummy rounds, blank rounds and live rounds.

    3) The fired casing was recovered from the movie set too.

    4) It appears that only one, single round of live ammo was fired. The projectile completely penetrated the body of the dead woman and then continued on to lodge in the shoulder of the director. Medical staff removed the projectile, which was described as a lead bullet, from the shoulder of the director and then turned it over to the authorities.

    5) All this material (guns, ammo, fired casing, recovered projectile, etc.) has been sent to the FBI for ballistic analysis. The FBI will deliver a report on (1) their analysis of the guns, (2) the different types of ammo, and (3) they will try to match the recovered projectile to the functional revolver to confirm that it is the weapon that fired the fatal shot.

    6) The authorities have completed their initial interviews of everyone directly on the scene at the time of the shooting. They may have follow-up interviews. Also, they have additional interviews to conduct of the movie staff that were not actually on-site but who may have knowledge of previous safety issues. From the interviews, it is confirmed that Alec Baldwin was the “trigger man” who fired the fatal shot.

    7) Some video was recovered from the set but it appears that there is no video of the actual shooting itself.

    8) The investigation is still on-going. They are still waiting for ballistic results, medical results and to complete all interviews. Once the investigation is complete, everything will be turned over to the Office of the Prosecutor. No decision has been made, yet, regarding criminal charges as it is too early in the investigation.

    So, not much new information. Looks like it will be a while before anyone makes any decisions as to whether criminal charges will be made and, if so, against whom.

  43. Fascinating reading (Branca) and about how I view the issue. Now let’s see if the Prosecutor elects to plea bargin or file charges and if so, who is assigned as prosecutor. Defense team will no doubt be highly paid/skilled. Kind of expect claim of lack of subject matter expertise and dependency upon others to compensate. Anyone involved who wants to work in the industry again will have an interesting choice.

    Wonder when the Prosecutor next faces an election?

    • I was also impressed with Mr. Branca’s analysis of the merits of a manslaughter charge (see my link to his latest article in a comment above).

      Based upon the press briefing today, it sounds like the ultimate decision, about whether to charge Alec Baldwin, will be made by the local DA, Mary Carmack Altwies. She was one of the New Mexico officials who delivered the press briefing today.

      I don’t know much about her. I did find some information here:

      https://heightzone.com/who-is-mary-carmack-altwies-wikipedia-husband-alec-baldwin/

      This small amount of information leads me to believe that this DA is a Leftist. She is likely plugged into the political cabal that is currently working (diligently) to destroy the American Republic and replace our government with a single-party Socialist State.

      Given that all Leftists stick together as if they were bonded with Superglue, I strongly suspect that she will lean toward letting Alec Baldwin off the hook. As I see it, there are three main paths that she could follow:

      1) She could shift the legal blame to an underling while absolving Alec Baldwin. The most likely target would be, as VTR notes above, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. The downsides of this strategy are (1) it is a pretty obvious way to protect Baldwin and (2) it makes the sacrificial victim a young woman which may worry the Left with regard to alienating other women. Maybe they will make Dave Halls, the Assistant Director who handed the gun to Baldwin and told him it was a “Cold Gun”, the scapegoat instead? He is a White Male and, for that reason, would make a very suitable sacrificial victim under modern left-wing ideology.

      2) She could take the position that the negligence did not rise to a criminal level. That there may be Civil liability but not enough to trigger criminal charges. In other words, let everyone off the hook. This would also be reinforcing the two-tier justice system that we have here in America but, perhaps, the Left does not care. They have already reinforced that impression a thousand times. They control the Media and could spin it to provide her cover for such as decision.

      3) She could be true to Lady Justice, put on a political blindfold and bring charges against Alec Baldwin and, possibly, against both Dave Halls and Hannah Gutierrez-Reed too. Bring charges and then let the jury decide as to who deserves punishment.

      Given how the Left has corrupted the Justice System here in America, I regard Option 3) above as having a very low probability. If I were to give odds, I would put them at:

      ODDS:

      Option 1) – About 45%

      Option 2) – About 50%

      Option 3) – No better than 5%

      YMMV

  44. The Washington Times has taken a crack at putting together the events at the fateful time of the negligent discharge. Here is their version of events:

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/oct/28/how-live-ammo-got-on-set-still-a-mystery-in-baldwi/

    A few points jumped out for me:

    1) They say that Hannah Gutierrez Reed is trying to hire an attorney. She needs a good one!

    2) A single live round of ammo seems to have, somehow, got into the functional revolver along with four(4) dummy rounds. How that single live round of ammo got into the revolver is the Great Mystery. That is what will fuel future conspiracy theories.

    3) Dave Halls is on-the-hook for a large slice of the blame. He undertook to grab the revolver off of a cart and give it to Baldwin. He admits that he did not properly check the condition of the revolver but, still, declared it a “Cold Gun” nevertheless.

    4) The Washington Times says this in their article: “It’s unclear whether Baldwin deliberately pulled the trigger or if the gun went off inadvertently”. This is horse-manure. I don’t know if they are including this line in an effort to provide cover for Baldwin or because they are ignorant fools who do not understand how a Single Action Army (SAA) revolver works. (Probably the last since they are Media!) SAA Revolvers do not go “off inadvertently” unless they are mechanically defective or they are dropped or hit on their hammer. No one is saying that Baldwin dropped the revolver or accidentally struck a blow against the hammer. I doubt that the weapon was defective. So, it is almost certain that Baldwin (1) cocked the hammer with his thumb, (2) pointed the revolver at living human-beings, and then (3) deliberately pulled the trigger.

    So, unless the FBI finds the revolver was defective (which would be useful to the Left so the FBI might make it so!), then Baldwin bears ultimate responsibility for this death and injury IMO.

    • TN_MAN:

      After all these years, don’t you know that guns regularly load themselves and go looking for innocent victims to shoot, without any help from their owners or other people? That’s the reason I lock up all my disassembled firearms in the safe, so they can’t get out and wreak all sorts of mayhem on my neighbors and other folks. Unsecured guns, such as those in Chicago and other big Demoncrat run cities have killed many and caused all kinds of havoc. The safest thing to do is what liberals demand – ban all of them, except those used to protect the radical lefties!

      • Tom606 – “…don’t you know that guns regularly load themselves and go looking for innocent victims to shoot?”

        I must have lived a sheltered life. It is strange but I have never encountered one of these “self-motivated” firearms that seem to weigh so heavily in the ideology of the firearm-prohibitionists.

        How does that work? Is it like that self-motivated 1958 Plymouth Fury in that movie based on the Stephen King novel? Is that where their concept of “The Evil Gun” originates? From Stephen King’s concept of “The Evil Car”?

        Do they get these ideas by reading to many Stephen King novels and by being exposed to “Herbie, The Love Bug” as children?

        Will I be forced to give my 1911 the name of “Christine”? 🙂

      • TN_MAN:

        Firearms owned and used by conservatives are like the evil “Christine”, whereas guns used to protect liberals are like the good “Kitt” from TV’s Nightrider.

    • TN_MAN,

      ” . . . then Baldwin bears ultimate responsibility for this death and injury IMO.”

      I believe he may bear ultimate responsibility because he was the producer, but not because he was the actor who handled the gun. I don’t know if Hollywood actors and actresses are required to check the guns which are handed to them. In our world, yes, everyone who handles the gun checks the gun. It may be standard procedure in Hollywood for actors to simply trust the people who hand them the props, who dress them, and who put make-up on them. After all, they probably often are handed real, non-firing, prop guns. This was not a prop gun. Prop guns can’t fire real ammo. This was a real SAA.

      If actors are required to check all the real guns, prop guns, and blank-firing guns they are given on the set, then yes, this was all Alec Baldwin’s fault. Someone will have to inform me of what is the standard procedure on a movie/TV set.

      I just Googled and found this link: bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59035488

      The article states the responsibility rests with each production’s property master or armoury expert, not the actors and actresses.

      NOTE: I know modern actresses like to refer to themselves as “actors” and drop the feminine form. I use the feminine form on purpose TO TICK THEM OFF. {I admit I don’t like the feminine form of “hero” because it sounds like a drug. Oh well}

      • @ Roger Willco – “I believe he may bear ultimate responsibility because he was the producer, but not because he was the actor who handled the gun.”

        I disagree. His guilt is more than just from his lapses as a producer. Alright, I will give you that, for Hollywood actors, they outsource the responsibility of checking the firearm to a paid armorer. That is stupid and wrong but seems to be the standard for Hollywood. For the sake of argument, I will give you that.

        Even so, Alec Baldwin did these actions on his own responsibility. He cocked the hammer of a Single Action Army (SAA) revolver thereby putting it into condition to fire. He then pointed the SAA revolver at living human-beings. Then, he pulled the trigger and was “shocked” to find that the revolver discharged and killed and wounded the people at which he had aimed.

        No cameras were rolling at the time. This was not part of a “Take”. The people that he pointed the revolver at were not fellow actors playing part of a scene. According to media reports, he was merely rehearsing and working out the details for a future scene to be shot later.

        There is absolutely NO REASON to be POINTING revolvers at LIVING HUMAN-BEINGS and then FIRING the revolver merely to REHEARSE!

        Under New Mexico Law:

        Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. … B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the … commission of a lawful act that might produce death … without due caution and circumspection.

        Rehearsing a scene with a functional SAA revolver is the “commission of a lawful act that might produce death” and by point the gun, unnecessarily, at other people on the set and then performing all the actions to fire it, the actions of Alec Baldwin were done “without due caution and circumspection”.

        Therefore, Alec Baldwin meets every detail of New Mexico Law to be guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter. Leaving aside any responsibility arising from his role of Producer, he is DIRECTLY guilty by his act of firing the Fatal Shot.

        He might get away with a claim that the responsibility for checking the loaded condition of the revolver was outsourced to the Armorer. However, the Armorer was not responsible for the dangerous actions that he performed, on his own responsibility, without due caution and circumspection.

        Maybe the armorer and Dave Hills, the Assistant Director, bear responsibility too, for their unsafe handling of the firearm, but that DOES NOT EXCUSE Alec Baldwin from his reckless acts that caused the death of one woman and the wounding of another man.

  45. The way I read Gilliam, it wouldn’t make any difference whether or not the gun was defective and fired unintentionally. That the gun was pointed at another individual meets the failure to handle with due care meets the requirement. I expect the DA to try her best to be ignorant of Gilliam. Perhaps some concerned citizens should let the local media know about it’s existence. Appointment of an experienced, prosecutor with a good record desired.

    Way back when the example of Involuntary manslaughter given us, was if you and a friend were working on a car up on a jack, didn’t use jack stands and the jack failed killing your friend. The failure to use jack stands (if it was your car & jack) is not exercising due care and the result of a jack failure clearly evident. It’s a stretch to imagine a DA charging in that situation. However, this isn’t a case of inaction, it’s a case of an action or series of actions that resulted in a death.

  46. Reuters
    Armorer on ‘Rust’ film set says producers overruled her safety requests
    By Lisa Richwine 3 hrs ago
    Handout photo of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
    The armorer who oversaw guns used in filming of Western movie “Rust” said producers allowed for an “unsafe” movie set and rejected her requests for training and other measures before actor Alec Baldwin accidentally shot and killed a cinematographer.

    Attorneys for 24-year-old Hannah Gutierrez issued the first statement on her behalf late on Thursday, a week after the fatal shooting by Baldwin of Halyna Hutchins on the “Rust” set outside of Santa Fe, New Mexico.

    Safety was the “number one priority” for Gutierrez, who had been hired as armorer and assistant prop master, according to the statement from attorneys Jason Bowles and Robert Gorence.

    Holding both positions “made it extremely difficult to focus on her job as an armorer,” the statement said, adding that Gutierrez fought for training, days to maintain weapons, and proper time to prepare for scenes with gunfire.

    Gutierrez “ultimately was overruled by production and her department,” the attorneys said.

    Video: D.A. has not ruled out criminal charges in ‘Rust’ film shooting (CNBC)

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    “The whole production set became unsafe due to various factors, including lack of safety meetings,” they added. “This was not the fault of Hannah.”

    Authorities in Santa Fe are investigating the incident and say they have not ruled out criminal charges. A key question is how live ammunition made its way into the Colt revolver https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/questions-swirl-alec-baldwin-shooting-case-ahead-sheriffs-update-2021-10-27 that Baldwin was using after he was told the gun was “cold,” an industry term meaning it was safe to use.

    Gutierrez “has no idea where the live rounds came from,” her attorneys said. She and the prop master “gained control over the guns and she never witnessed anyone shoot live rounds with these guns and nor would she permit that.”

    Guns on the set were locked up at night and at lunch, “and there’s no way a single one of them was unaccounted for or being shot by crew members,” they added.

    “Hannah is devastated and completely beside herself over the events that have transpired,” the statement said.

    A spokeswoman for the “Rust” producers had no immediate comment on Friday.

    Baldwin has said he is heartbroken and is cooperating with investigators.

  47. Fox News
    Alec Baldwin shooting investigation focused on who brought live rounds to the set: sheriff
    Tyler McCarthy
    Thu, October 28, 2021, 8:28 AM
    The sheriff investigating the shooting incident involving Alec Baldwin on the set of the movie “Rust” said the investigation is now focused on the presence of live ammunition on the set.

    Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza appeared Thursday on the “Today” show, where he discussed the ongoing investigation and noted that the main point that authorities are looking into is how live ammunition made its way to a set that allegedly didn’t require its use.

    “I think during the interviews, the focus of the investigation is how the live rounds got there, who brought them there and why they were there,” Mendoza explained. “As far as if it’s going to rise to the point of negligence or the point of criminal charges, we’re hoping to work with the district attorney in reference to that so it’s a clear determination if charges should be filed.”

    Mendoza said during a press conference Wednesday that, despite armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed saying there was no live ammunition kept on set, a live round was recovered in director Joel Souza’s shoulder — that same bullet passed through cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, resulting in her death. In addition to the bullet removed from Souza’s shoulder, investigators found 500 rounds of ammunition, including a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what appeared to be live rounds.

    ALEC BALDWIN ‘RUST’ SHOOTING: SHERIFF SAYS ‘THIS IS STILL A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION’: LIVE UPDATES

    The sheriff noted that he does not believe that live ammunition had any necessity to be on the set and is therefore looking into how and why it was there at all.

    “The information that we’ve got in the industry is that there should be no live rounds on set,” he explained. “So, again, we’re going to try to determine why they were there and who brought them there.”

    ALEC BALDWIN ‘INCONSOLABLE’ AFTER DEADLY ‘RUST’ MOVIE SET SHOOTING, ‘CANCELING OTHER PROJECTS’: REPORT

    One hypothesis as to the presence of live rounds being on set has to do with rumors that the crew used the guns in their off time for leisure to do target practice. According to TheWrap, unnamed crew members reported others using the gun that same day in the morning to go “plinking,” an activity in which people shoot at beer cans with live ammunition for fun. Mendoza said he has not been able to confirm those reports yet.

    “I’m aware of the statements, there have been statements that were made that there was a live-fire and target practice on the set,” Mendoza said. “We’re going to track down that information and try and confirm whether that’s a fact or not.”

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    He concluded his interview by calling on anyone with knowledge of the alleged live-ammo target practice to come forward to investigators.

    An aerial view of the film set on Bonanza Creek Ranch where Hollywood actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins VIA REUTERS
    An aerial view of the film set on Bonanza Creek Ranch where Hollywood actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins VIA REUTERS
    “Again, our investigators are aware of those statements and we encourage anybody that has information that took place and when that took place to come forward with that information.”

    In addition to Baldwin and Gutierrez Reed, the investigation is also focused on assistant director Dave Halls, who said in a search warrant obtained by Fox News Wednesday that he did not check all of the rounds inside the gun to ensure that they were “dummy” rounds. However, given that no live rounds were supposed to be on set at all, it’s still unclear how one entered the revolver at all.

      • Fox News
        Sheriff investigating Alec Baldwin shooting incident says armorer’s statement was ‘not accurate’
        Tyler McCarthy
        Thu, October 28, 2021, 6:18 AM
        Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza said that he does not believe a statement from the armorer in the “Rust” movie investigation was accurate regarding the presence of live rounds on the set.

        Alec Baldwin was practicing cross-drawing a long-barreled Colt .45 revolver on a church set made for the indie-western film when the gun went off. Authorities confirmed that a live round struck cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in the stomach and was eventually recovered inside director Joel Souza’s right shoulder.

        Very few people handled that gun prior to the incident, but one was armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed. In a search warrant executed by the Sheriff’s office and obtained by Fox News, Gutierrez Reed noted that there should have been no live ammunition on the set at all.

        Speaking on the “Today” show Thursday, Sheriff Mendoza was asked if that statement is accurate given the evidence that has been collected in the case thus far.

        ALEC BALDWIN ‘RUST’ SHOOTING: POLICE SAY ARMORER DID NOT GIVE AN ACCURATE STATEMENT: LIVE UPDATES

        “No, obviously it isn’t,” he said. “That was a live round that struck and killed Mrs. Hutchisn, so that is not an accurate statement as far as I’m concerned.”

        Mendoza said during a press conference Wednesday that, in addition to the bullet taken from Souza’s shoulder, investigators found 500 rounds of ammunition, including a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what appeared to be live rounds.

        ALEC BALDWIN ‘INCONSOLABLE’ AFTER DEADLY ‘RUST’ MOVIE SET SHOOTING, ‘CANCELING OTHER PROJECTS’: REPORT

        Halyna Hutchins was a rising star in the cinematography world when she was hit with a projectile on set that ultimately killed her.
        Halyna Hutchins was a rising star in the cinematography world when she was hit with a projectile on set that ultimately killed her. Photo by Fred
        The armorer said in the affidavit that she checked the weapon that Baldwin eventually fired prior to the crew breaking for lunch to ensure it was only filled with dummy rounds. When the crew broke for lunch, she personally locked the gun and others in a safe in a nearby prop truck. However, at that time she claims ammo was left out on a cart on the set and not secure. Ammo was also inside the prop truck at the time. After lunch, crew member Sarah Zachary pulled the firearms out of the safe inside the truck and handed them to her. She advised there are only a few people that have access and the combination to the safe. During the course of filming, Hannah says she handed the gun to Baldwin a few times and also handed it to Halls.

        Elsewhere in the interview with “Today,” Mendoza noted that the current focus of the investigation is on the people who handled the gun prior to Hutchins’ death. In addition, he says detectives are taking a very close look at how live ammunition made its way to set at all as well as who was responsible for bringing it.

      • Interesting. Her statement, via her attorneys, makes clear these points:

        1) She denies that the functional revolver was used for recreational target practice as has been claimed by some media reports.
        2) She denies bringing any live rounds onto the set or ever allowing any live rounds on the set. Despite this, a live round was clearly involved in this negligent shooting and the Police CLAIM to have recovered other rounds of seemingly live ammo off the set (along with blanks and dummy rounds).
        3) She denies any knowledge of how a live round made it into the firearm.
        4) She confirms that firearm safety standards were not being met on the set. She blames the Producers for not supporting her efforts to enforce safety standards.

        So, it is all finger-pointing at this stage. Baldwin and the armorer both blame other people. No doubt Dave Halls, who gave the revolver to Baldwin while shouting “cold gun”, will have his picks to blame too.

        We are still left with The Great Mystery. Where did the live ammo come from? Who brought it onto the set if it was not the armorer? How did a single live round of ammo make it into the functional SAA revolver (along with four dummy rounds)? How did this live round get positioned in sequence so that it would be moved under the hammer when Baldwin did his foolish stunt and fired the weapon at living human-beings? Was the live round deliberately positioned so that it was next-in-line to fire? If so, by whom? Or did Baldwin play his own version of “Russian Roulette” and click the gun several times until the live round went off?

        Ah, I do love a good mystery. I can foresee many, many conspiracy theories growing out of this one!

      • One more point about the actions of the armorer. According to some media reports:

        “After the fatal shooting, Gutierrez was given the gun and removed a spent casing before handing it to arriving deputies, according to the affidavit.”

        If this is true (one never knows with today’s “drive-by media”), then she tampered with evidence. The shooting-involved firearm should have been left alone until it could be taken into evidence and processed by law enforcement technical staff.

        The spent casing might have had fingerprints which could confirm who loaded the live round into the firearm. By taking out the casing and handling it, the armorer contaminated the casing and may have damaged any fingerprint evidence there.

        This could have been either a very dumb move by the armorer or a very smart one. If the armorer was positive that she did not load any live ammo into the firearm, even by mistake, then it was dumb to contaminate evidence that could have cleared her of any wrongdoing by pointing to the real culprit.

        On the other hand, if doubt existed in her mind. If it was POSSIBLE that she MIGHT have loaded a live round by mistake, then handling the casing was very smart. It was smart because, if her fingerprints are found on the casing now, she can say “They are there because I removed the casing and handled it AFTER the shooting. I still have no idea as to how the live round got loaded in the first place”.

        So, muddying the water (as it were) would be smart IF there was a chance that she did, inadvertently, load that fateful live round with her own hand.

        Mas, you teach people about how to deal with the police after a shooting. What do you think?

        Was she being very dumb or being very smart?

        Another mystery to be solved! 🙂

  48. I think some body lying in case you can draw own conclusion to who that may be. One this case who facts keep come forth. Story seem keep change to happen.

    Yahoo
    Rust Armorer Said She Checked Gun, Asst. Director Admitted to Safety Protocol Lapse: Search Warrant
    Katie Campione
    Wed, October 27, 2021, 4:19 PM
    An updated search warrant from the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office gives new details about the fatal shooting on the set of Rust that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.

    Dave Halls, the assistant director who handed Alec Baldwin the firearm with which he shot Hutchins and director Joel Souza, admitted to authorities that there was a lapse in gun safety protocol on set leading up to the incident, according to the search warrant obtained by the New York Post.

    Explaining the typical protocol, Halls told deputies: “I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there’s no live fire, she (armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed) opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say cold gun on set,” according to the warrant.

    For more on the shooting on the Rust set, listen below to our daily podcast PEOPLE Every Day.

    On the day of the incident, Halls said that Gutierrez-Reed showed him the loaded firearm after the crew returned from lunch, so that they could continue rehearsals. He told authorities he could only remember seeing three rounds in the gun, the affidavit states.

    According to the warrant, he admitted that he should have checked each round, but he did not. He couldn’t remember if Gutierrez-Reed spun the drum.

    After the incident, Halls picked up the gun from a church pew on set and took it to Gutierrez-Reed, instructing her to open it so he could see what was inside. When the armorer opened the gun, Halls told authorities he saw five rounds in the gun — four “dummy” rounds, indicated by a hole in the casing, and one “without the hole,” according to the warrant.

    RELATED: Could Alec Baldwin Be Charged Over Rust Shooting? Legal Expert Weighs In

    He also advised that the round without the hole didn’t have a “cap” on it, and “was just the casing.” He maintained that the shooting was “not a deliberate act,” the warrant states.

    In her interview with deputies, Gutierrez-Reed said that she had checked the rounds inside the firearm to make sure they were “dummies,” and not real bullets. When the crew broke for lunch, the guns were locked inside a safe on the prop truck, which few people had access to, she added.

    Gutierrez-Reed also told authorities that no live ammunition was ever kept on set, according to the affidavit.

    RELATED: Alec Baldwin Shot Halyna Hutchins with a Real Bullet on the Rust Set, Authorities Say

    On Wednesday, New Mexico authorities confirmed that the projectile that killed Hutchins and injured Souza was a real lead bullet.

    According to a preliminary investigation, the bullet, which was accidentally fired by actor Alec Baldwin Thursday, fatally struck Hutchins before hitting Souza, Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Juan Rios tells PEOPLE.

    It has since been recovered from Souza’s shoulder.

    At a press conference, Sheriff Adan Mendoza said investigators discovered “500 rounds of ammunition” on the set, including, “a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what we are suspecting are live rounds.”

    Never miss a story — sign up for PEOPLE’s free weekly newsletter to get the biggest news of the week delivered to your inbox every Friday.

    Rios confirmed to PEOPLE afterward that “live rounds” means “real bullets.”

    It’s unclear where the bullets came from. Mendoza told reporters Wednesday he believed “there was some complacency on this set.”

    Following Mendoza’s comments Wednesday, Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies echoed that in terms of criminal charges against Baldwin or others, “all options are on the table at this point” and “no one has been ruled out” as they search for answers as to what led to the fatal shooting on the set of the Western film. The investigation remains ongoing, with production on the film halted. No charges have been filed. Rust Armorer Said She Checked Gun, Asst. Director Admitted to Safety Protocol Lapse: Search Warrant
    Katie Campione
    Wed, October 27, 2021, 4:19 PM
    An updated search warrant from the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office gives new details about the fatal shooting on the set of Rust that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.

    Dave Halls, the assistant director who handed Alec Baldwin the firearm with which he shot Hutchins and director Joel Souza, admitted to authorities that there was a lapse in gun safety protocol on set leading up to the incident, according to the search warrant obtained by the New York Post.

    Explaining the typical protocol, Halls told deputies: “I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there’s no live fire, she (armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed) opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say cold gun on set,” according to the warrant.

    For more on the shooting on the Rust set, listen below to our daily podcast PEOPLE Every Day.

    On the day of the incident, Halls said that Gutierrez-Reed showed him the loaded firearm after the crew returned from lunch, so that they could continue rehearsals. He told authorities he could only remember seeing three rounds in the gun, the affidavit states.

    According to the warrant, he admitted that he should have checked each round, but he did not. He couldn’t remember if Gutierrez-Reed spun the drum.

    After the incident, Halls picked up the gun from a church pew on set and took it to Gutierrez-Reed, instructing her to open it so he could see what was inside. When the armorer opened the gun, Halls told authorities he saw five rounds in the gun — four “dummy” rounds, indicated by a hole in the casing, and one “without the hole,” according to the warrant.

    RELATED: Could Alec Baldwin Be Charged Over Rust Shooting? Legal Expert Weighs in. He also advised that the round without the hole didn’t have a “cap” on it, and “was just the casing.” He maintained that the shooting was “not a deliberate act,” the warrant states.

    In her interview with deputies, Gutierrez-Reed said that she had checked the rounds inside the firearm to make sure they were “dummies,” and not real bullets. When the crew broke for lunch, the guns were locked inside a safe on the prop truck, which few people had access to, she added.

    Gutierrez-Reed also told authorities that no live ammunition was ever kept on set, according to the affidavit.

    RELATED: Alec Baldwin Shot Halyna Hutchins with a Real Bullet on the Rust Set, Authorities Say

    On Wednesday, New Mexico authorities confirmed that the projectile that killed Hutchins and injured Souza was a real lead bullet.

    According to a preliminary investigation, the bullet, which was accidentally fired by actor Alec Baldwin Thursday, fatally struck Hutchins before hitting Souza, Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Juan Rios tells PEOPLE.

    It has since been recovered from Souza’s shoulder.

    At a press conference, Sheriff Adan Mendoza said investigators discovered “500 rounds of ammunition” on the set, including, “a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what we are suspecting are live rounds.”

    Never miss a story — sign up for PEOPLE’s free weekly newsletter to get the biggest news of the week delivered to your inbox every Friday.

    Rios confirmed to PEOPLE afterward that “live rounds” means “real bullets.”

    It’s unclear where the bullets came from. Mendoza told reporters Wednesday he believed “there was some complacency on this set.”

    Following Mendoza’s comments Wednesday, Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies echoed that in terms of criminal charges against Baldwin or others, “all options are on the table at this point” and “no one has been ruled out” as they search for answers as to what led to the fatal shooting on the set of the Western film.

    The investigation remains ongoing, with production on the film halted. No charges have been filed.

  49. Baldwin is now talking to his friends in the media. No doubt as a damage control measure to set a narrative in-place. To a leftist, it is always about controlling the “Narrative”. They are creatures of lies, propaganda, and indoctrination. See this article:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/alec-baldwin-speaks-on-camera-for-1st-time-about-deadly-shooting/ar-AAQ8Jwb?ocid=uxbndlbing

    The one thing that jumps out at me, besides his dodging of responsibility by calling it “a one-in-a-trillion event” (I guess that makes killing people OK. If you only do it rarely!), is this exchange:

    ” Production of ‘Rust’ was paused after the shooting. When asked if he thought production would start up again, Baldwin said, ‘No, I doubt it.’

    The actor said he does not know if he would ever work on another film set involving firearms again, but that efforts to limit the use of firearms on sets ‘is something I’m extremely interested in.’ ”

    As I said in the beginning (see my first comment above), Baldwin is eager to “Double-Down” on Firearms-Prohibition. Sounds like his first move will be to implement prohibition on movie sets!

    The Baldwin leopard is not changing his spots. Rather, he is going to darken his spots!

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