SUICIDE INDICATORS AT YOUR DOCTOR’S OFFICE???

This reminds me of a “doctor” I saw at the VA. Once he decided OBVIOUSLY I had a combat related disorder, the next question was “Do you own fire arms?”. Of course I said, “No, that is illegal I live in Chicago.” (who is being sued for defying the Supreme Court ruling.) It is a shame I had to lie, I do own an M-14 a Colt M-4 & a Glock 10mm and a S/W J-frame .38. But as a GI I am trained on all of them, so saftey and they are all legal. They are just what I know best and trust. I got over it by getting past the guilt because a real Dr said,”Nah you’re fine.” I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment & wore the uniform for it. I can’t wait to see Gun Grabber Daley lose in Court. Thank God for the NRA & others. Great article Mas! Funny but makes a solid point.

Just goes to show you never know what you’ll find. I recently spent an evening visiting friends (a married couple) and another friend of the wifes stopped by for a bit. This guy was what I would normally consider a red neck (not in a dirogatory mannor). He drives a 4×4 truck that has obviously seen it’s share of mud, and seems to be the serious outdoors type. The conversation got onto the subject of holsters because I was showing off my latest creation, a shoulder holster (I hand sew leather as a hobby). To my surprise, the guy became hostile: “Why do you think you need to carry a gun?!?” he asked bluntly, disapproving. I was taken aback because it never occured to me that this particular guy, givin his rural background etc. would be an anti. It was no problem though because, before I could even get a word out, the wife of the couple shot right back “Because he can” in a tone that said that was the end of it. The story is all that much sweeter when you know that this woman was at one time terrified of guns. Spending time with me (I have been very gentle about it) she is gradually re-thinking her position. At one time, a gun in the room would turn her into a bubbling idiot unable to do anything but cry. Now, she has even held a few of my “prettier” guns (a nickled 3″ S&W model 19 for instance) as long as she sees me make sure it is unloaded before I give it to her. Will she ever go to the range with me? Probably not, but who knows maybe… Baby steps man… baby steps…

s

A few years back my wife Diane (aka “the Red-Haired Devil”) was diagnosed with cancer. I went with her to the Doc’s office for a what was supposed to be just a Q & A consultation. Doc enters, starts talking and then, without a warning or ‘by-your-leave, pulls up her sweater to do an exam…. and comes face to face with her Glock 30.
His manners improved thereafter.

That sounds like how my doctor his, and his nurses as well. I carry into his office b/c he won’t freak out when he gives my lungs a listen and sees the gun in the IWB. Though he has said, “just make sure the girls [the nurses] don’t see that. You and I are pro-gun, but some of them aren’t.”

Also, the one time I’ve been shooting at scottsdale gun club, it’s b/c my physician and I went (he has a membership).

That’s what I call “holistic” health :D.

I think the man at the doctors office was purposefully trying to elicit a response from the doctors. His answers given to strangers seemed to be designed to cause the doctors to become concerned. He went out of his way to let the doctors know that he was ‘into guns’ and was probably armed. To the non-shooting community this could be shocking and scary given he was in a hospital with a cancer ward that treats patients with terminal conditions and depression can be very high among patients and visitors.

Hi Mas,

Ah yes the intrusion of the physician into our daily lives to determine how we can protect ourselves from our own self. This is a sad reflection on where our society has gone in my opinion.

I’ll tell you what, when the physician that ever bothers to ask me that sort of question can show me some sort of certification in being a Home Safety Specialist I may be inclined to be honest and truthful with my answers. Then again, maybe not. It’s not the Quack’s business what guns I own, or what I do with them. I’m there about a specific problem, and suicide or mental health isn’t it.

I saw something regarding this intrusion online a while back. It had a downloadable form for the quack to sign, being that he or she would be practicing outside the scope of their license by jumping into home safety.

I see this line of questioning as the A.M.A. doing it’s part to rid the world of guns and play into the hands of the “nanny state”. Now that we have ObummerCare I think it’s going to get very interesting.

Biker

I never understood the deal with racking the shotgun. I hear that all the time. I want the first sound the bad guy hears to be the firing pin hitting the primer!

I can’t help but laugh. 50 years ago I went with my mom to the pediatrician for my annual checkup before school started. He asked what I like to do. I told him read about hunting the big five in Africa. His jaw dropped. He later took my mother aside and talked to her about her abi-normal son. 🙂

Great article Mas! My other half and I got a good laugh out of it.

That incident reminds me of when we went to inquire about the Denver Zoo’s weapon policy. They have a fairly visible sign at the ticket booth that reads “No Firearms” and if I recall correctly it resembled a stop sign.

Rocky Mountain Gun Owners said they were unsure of the weapon policy, so I asked the ticket person if I could obtain a copy of it (I wasn’t carrying that day, much to my dismay).

That poor lady went deathly white and shakingly asked very timidly if I had a… *gasp* g…u….n..

I clearly told her no but the mere thought of a gun seemed to bother her to no end and Heaven forbid, a loaded gun! I was honestly expecting her to hit a silent panic button and have security or police tackle me for saying the G word.

For anyone that’s curious, the “No Firearms” applies to Open Carry only. Concealed is perfectly fine but I believe they ask everyone to please leave their guns at home.

It’s not like animals ever escape or attack humans…only guns kill people silly.

A year ago while at my eye exam, I wanted to ask the doctor about a few optics questions, I told him that I shoot photographs as well as firearms and needed to ask a few questions. After which, he started asking questions, what gun do you shoot, where do you shoot it. Just as I thought I was going to have to rationalize my sport, the Dr. interjected “I have a Sig in .45 ACP and since the local range closed, I’ve been looking for a range to join”. I feel sorry for the patients left in the waiting room, as to no doubt with the ensuing conversations that “firearms were the cause of their delayed appointments”.

Actually, the man staring up at Harry Callahan’s S&W model 29 said “I got’s to know”. Nowadays that line would probably be changed to “I must satisfy my curiosity, my good man”. Regarding the Blagojevich trial: the only thing that will unlock that jury would be a certain bounced check (just sayin’). Not long ago a doctor asked me the now popular question “Have you ever contemplated suicide”. I answered “Yes, I gave it a considerable amount of thought”. Having taken the bait, the doc leaned forward and asked, very seriously, “What made you change your mind?”. After the pregnant pause, I told him “I didn’t see much future in it”. He didn’t know whether to laugh or cry so he gave me one of those smiles you would see on a stroke victim, one side up and the other down, while one eye twitched lie a moose’s ear.

Tom, I’d had no idea that Diane (and you) had gone through that. Glad you seem so hale and hearty now!

Unfortunately I have five doctors on my quarterly rounds (hell, I’m 75 so gotta have something to do) and all, including the VA doc, are gun folks. The fifth one isn’t but just laughs when I take off my shirt and makes a joke about packing heat. Of course I’m in East Tennessee and not Ill., Calif. or some other sheep inhabited state.

By the way, are you going to be at the GRPC next month? Your answer might sway me to make that long trek to Frisco.

Massad! Canada Carry!?
Is it possible for an U.S. citizen to carry in Canada?? For example a legaly licensed person by U.S. State does Canada or any Provinces recognize reciprocity??

Love to hear your thoughts about carrying in our friendly provinces!
Hugs,
Karen

Hi Massad!

I’d love to hear about your opinion of carry in Canada. Is it possible at all? Is there any reciprocity? If a U.S. citizen has a concealed carry license is there any provision to allow that in Canda?

Yours Cuoriously,
Karen

All our guns aren’t being used for what the founding fathers said they should be used for- cleaning out rogue elements of government and restoring a workable system. Not one person with access to personal data has to my knowledge posted names, address and schedule of persons that should be arrested, tried, convicted and shot…or just shot.

This list would be a great first phase to hand to retired Colonel “X” and his team of nail eating mercenary types.
Lloyd Blankfein, Rahm Emanuel, Bush Jr/Sr, Edgar Bronfman Sr, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Hugh Grant, Bill & Hillary Clinton, Jacob Rothschild, Arnold Swarzeneggar, George Soros, Bill Gates, Al Gore, Cass Sunstein, Henry Paulson, Nick Sarkosy, Carlos Slim, Ma Ying-jeou, Ben Netanyahu, Tony Blair, Elizabeth Windsor, John Paul, David Miscavige, Kim Jong, Ted Turner, Warren Buffet, Jim Walton, Mike Bloomberg, Wolf Blitzer, Rosie Odonald, Diane Sawyer, Rupert Murdoch, Hu Jintao, Silvio Berlusconi, Timmy Geithner, Oprah Winfrey, Dominique Strauss Kahn, Robert Zoellick, Ted Nugent, Alex Jones, Barbara Walters, Steven Speilberg, Henry Kissenger, All members of Congress and Senate that voted to continue funding the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, Bill O’Reily, Steve Segal and those 2 annoying black golfer dudes.

That’s great! Thanks for sharing, Mas. My similar story has to do with my new optometrist. About 10 minutes into our first meeting, the discussion turned to guns, defense, and gun free zones. To make a long story short … turns out we were both carrying Glock 27s. We had each sort of questioned and hinted our way to that mutual disclosure (with me more defensive than him … after all, it was his office). We had a good laugh about that. I’ll be going back to this guy.

Given all the AMA and media propaganda, I find myself pleasantly surprised whenever I come across a pro-2A physician, and I have met a number of them. 🙂

Karen, I’m afraid you’re SOL for CCW in Canada.

RegNav, I will indeed be at the GRPC, probably on the concealed carry panel. Hope to meet you there.

I see potential for great fun with any doc trying to do “politically correct” suicide profiling.

Start out asking why she wants to know if you own guns. Point out that 20,000 people a year use guns to commit suicide.

Just when she thinks you’re both on the same side, drop the anvil: Mention that over 100,000 people die each year due to medical malpractice, and express concern that, while you may be safe with your guns, you might NOT be safe around doctors!

Zzzzzzzing!!

I had a rapidly-worsening sinus infection, and my regular doc did not have any open appts soon enough to do any good. Thus I had to see whoever was available, who was someone I had never seen before. After talking about my sinus trouble for 5 minutes she had decided that I had depression (huh?). I told her not to put that in the records because it could affect my gun rights. Then she said in a most snotty manner “Which is more important to you, getting treatment or your gun collection?” Obviously, my guns are more important to me than being treated for a condition I don’t have. How does a specialist in Nephrology diagnose a psychopathology from a 5 minute conversation about a sinus infection? Turns out she couldn’t even diagnose the sinus infection correctly, and I was back a week later to see the ENT doc.

In our hospital most doctors are licensed to carry. This includes a wisp of a woman who trained in Europe and was petrified of firearms when she came here to practice. The AMA speaks for less than 20% of physicians and the number is falling as the orginization moves ever further left.

WJL

Face it, doctor job market is POOR now – so, if you don’t like the way a doctor treats you, in any way, you can always find one more to your liking nearby!
“Voting with your checkbook” will FAST get the message across to doctors wanting to give you political lectures for a hundred bucks per visit!

With my luck, a Doctor with big fingers would be doing the digital exam while asking those questions, and I am alergic to rubber.
What a cruel world. Thanks for all you do Mas, it is appreciated.
Jim

Long Island Mike, love the Young Frankenstein reference!

I’ve needed glasses since my teens. Last year, at the young age of 58, my eye doctor said I had the beginning of cataracts in both eyes. I asked him “If I got the operation, would I still be able to shoot as good as I do now?” He said yes, focus would be an issue, but you still should maintain good groups.

Well, he did the operations – 6 months apart. I ended up with 20/15 in one eye and 20/20 in the other. When I went for my 6 month appointment, he asked me if I had any problems with my shooting. I told him just the rear sight was out of focus but didn’t matter that much. This doctor was pro-gun for sure!

my mom is a family physician and she ccw’s. she also has to determine patient’s sanity and safety for obvious reasons. she also asks about the rest of the patient’s family and if they bring relatives or kids, she tries to determine if there is any abuse in the household. same reasoning hospitals have to report gunshot wounds. it’s the doctor’s job to pry into the patient’s personal lives to determine health problems. she has treated and reported battered wives and abused children. she also makes house calls.

Franken-STEEN! 😛

Just had my eyes re-examined and made sure my doctor was aware of my need to focus properly when shooting. Everyone involved and pertinent questions to support my needs. It made me feel good.

Biker RN, you saw that doctor’s questionnaire at David Codrea’s National Gun Rights Examiner
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/is-your-doctor-qualified-to-give-gun-safety-advice

And here is the questionnaire itself.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29542461/Physician-Liability-Form

Yeah it’s funny now haha, you after all are not suicidal right? You don’t have to be to have your 2nd amendment rights revoked.

Mental health treatment is one of the widest back doors to removing gun rights of people. Any treatment (medication or talking to a shrink) creates a paper trail that can be used against you at any time in the future (like to commit you to an institution or declare you mentally incompetent.)

Discretionary determinations can remove your rights for life, with no necessary crime or burden of proof. Any shrink could talk a good talk and give technical terms to back up any discretionary thing they decide too. Any shrink can also diagnose a person with something to treat (which is frequently done to justify medications.)

If you have ever gone to shrink college, or known people who are, they can diagnose themselves and every member of society with multiple mental illnesses (and it can even be homework). As they are discretionary and pretty much every personality trait or lack thereof is a “symptom” of something.

Being determined mentally defective OR being involuntarily committed to an institution (That happens when you are determined to be suicidal) are common and they are in fact some of the scariest ways to prohibit someone for life, because they are entirely discretionary ways to deny someone for life who has committed no disqualifying crime. On top of that the decision does not even have to be made by a judge (and a jury is never required.)

A board or commission or other lawful authority (like one set up in Chicago by Daley that declares half of the city to have a “condition”) can decide you are forever unfit to have a gun.
Done, no guns for you, no jury or even single judge needed in the process.

So if a court, or any board, commission or other random group with “lawful authority” given by your local or state government says you are a danger to yourself because of something you are being treated for or a questionnaire given at a doctor’s office, then you can lose your gun rights.

So I personally don’t think it’s so funny…I think it’s kinda scary.

~Brogan

Mama,

Thank you for those links.

Brogan,

I’m on par with you, and find the credence given to shrinks far too great.

That is not to say that some people do not in fact have mental disorders and shouldn’t be allowed around anything more dangerous than a cup of Jello Pudding. The thing is, when you start looking at everyone as having a mental disorder you have done a diservice to your profession and to the public at large.

Biker

Biker,

I agree with you that there are some people that are truly mentally disturbed and as you put it “shouldn’t be allowed around anything more dangerous than a cup of Jello Pudding”.

That being said my distrust of politicians and law makers is quite large. They tend to use ANY “Tool “at their disposal to further their political agenda.

HR 2640 sponsored by Carolyn McCarthy is prime example. Once labeled you have no recourse… your rights are taken away via an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist (or questionnaire) not due process. The “mental” card is too easy to use and more safeguards should be in place before some ones rights are revoked.

~Brogan

Anybody who goes out of his way, even stays in his way, to let people know he carries concealed isn’t, he’s carrying stupid.

As a middle aged physician, I would like to comment on a few things. First, Mas, thanks for you blogs, love reading them.

The AMA is mentioned above. Please, John Q Public, don’t believe in any way that that organization in any way represents the hard working private practice physician. Wanna know the latest statistics:
Of the 950,000 american docs, only 230,000 are AMA members, and of that number, OVER HALF are student’s, residents, and retirees!!! So, in reality, less than one in four of practicing MDs are a member of that organization. I haven’t been a member for over 10 years.

So, the AMA’s stance on guns and gun rights also in no way represents the majority of MDs. Most all MDs are conservatives and strong believers in the 2nd amendment its inherent rights.

I also have seen the questionaire. I choose to leave that one blank. Doc, its none of your damn business how many guns I have!

Brogan,

I’m not disagreeing with you.

Biker