As our news media became “all Pope Francis, all the time,” TV sources don’t seem to mention that in a great show of confidence in his 36,000 officers, the Commissioner of the New York City Police Department instructed them that if they took their families to see Pontiff while off-duty, they had to leave at home the guns they’ve traditionally carried 24/7. “Welcome to our world,” say some Second Amendment advocates in the private citizenry.
All I’ve learned from Fox and CNN about the Papal visit is:
The news has become a potpourri
Of every element of Popery.
Francis has said nothing hokery
and solemnly made no jokery,
nor offered much changery or hopery.
He’s said nothing “slippery slopery,”
and has not been the victim of mopery,
and said nothing worthy of Snopery.
And for that, at least, this observer of unfortunate current news trends is grateful.
Unbelievable, making a cop leave his/her gun at home when security is suppose
to be a huge priority!!
All they did was create another gun free zone! I realize there was other security, but trained plain cloths cops should have been a plus, not a problem, i.e. liberal issue.
Thank “GOD”, that there were no attacks.
The pope is also towing the liberal “you’re a bad person if you own or support owning firearms or even help make firearms”, yet has plenty of automatic small arms-toting body guards.
And that’s not even the tiniest reason why I’m very much a Protestant in the classic sense.
I can see where an armed cop with family but no uniform could cause quite a ruckus should his piece become visible. Somebody yells GUN and all hell breaks loose. I am pretty sure that security, especially the Vatican guard were on a “hair” trigger.
Mas, your a poet, and you didn’t even know it!
A bit of background and uncertainty:
The memo which announced it, which can be read here:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/nypd-union-head-upset-that-off-duty-cops-cant-bring-guns-to-pope-francis-procession/
says:
“Various city, state, and federal agencies are involved in ensuring a safe and secure visit for His Holiness, as well as members of the general public who plan to attend the various events associated with his visit. All attendees must submit to screening at events, including at the Pope’s visit to St. Patrick’s Cathedral, his procession through Central Park, and the mass he will lead at Madison Square Garden, among others.
“Therefore, all members of the service who plan to attend a Papal event while off-duty are hereby advised that firearms will not be permitted. Any member with a firearm will be excluded from the event.”
“Hereby advised” doesn’t sound like a prohibition unilaterally issued by the Police Commissioner or department, but only a notification that the “various city, state, and federal agencies” have decided that guns aren’t going to be allowed through screening and that the department doesn’t want anyone to be surprised by the fact that an exception is not going to be made for them (which might otherwise be common).
If that’s correct, then there’s not much that the NYPD could have done about it except to say, “Well, if our off-duty cops can’t bring in guns, the Pope can’t come to NYC or we’re not going to participate in providing security.” Good luck with either of those. And in addition to the “various city, state, and federal agencies” there’s no doubt that the Vatican’s own security apparatus played a part in the security planning and, as that article points out, “Pope Francis has noted his displeasure with guns numerous times in the past, having notably stated that those who manufacture or invest in weapons cannot call themselves Christians.” (Citing, on the latter point: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/pope-francis-weapons_n_7636416.html )
And as the article further points out, “While this arrangement is in character for the Pope’s desires and the protections put in place, Patrick Lynch, president of the Patrolman Benevolence Association, thinks its ‘foolish,’ to keep extra guns away.” Lynch characterizes the memo as an “order” in his statement about it, but it’s hard to necessarily read it as such. Lynch is not known for missing an opportunity to slam the Commissioner, so for him to fail to do it here strongly suggests that this might not have actually been the Commissioner or PD administration’s call (though they might be blamed, if all the facts were known, for accepting it without much or any objection, but we don’t know that).
But maybe Mas has some information I’ve not been able to find which says that this was entirely the Commissioner’s call. (I’d also note that the memo was issued by the Chief of Department, not the Commissioner, but that may just be a technicality; even if it originated from the Commissioner, who is a civilian administrator, it could very probably have been actually issued by the Chief of Department, who is the senior sworn uniformed member of the service.)
I read to the RedHaired Devil your report on the Commish. Her response was, uh, ‘pithy’…
If only Tom Sellecks’ portrayal of the NYPD Commissioner more reality and less wishful fiction.
)))))))))))) I want to echo echo echo what Mary Beth Robinette said. ))))))))))))))
Apparently the Pope was unable to secure the legions of angels Jesus had at His disposal and didn’t use. Therefore feeling vulnerable, the Pope opted for private security. Clearly he is not as well connected.
If they are on duty they can carry, so what is the difference besides being able to easily identify the person is a police officer? I would think you would want some on duty police or off duty to be in plain clothes.
I always laugh at the knee jerk reaction of 2A folks regards excluding guns from an event. Hey let every CCW into the crowd next to the guy being protected. Especially a guy whose purpose in life is to mingle with the dispossessed, crippled and shunned. Seems like it didn’t work out too well for JPII when Mehmet Ali Ağca and his crew showed up when nobody got tossed, did it? Or how about Reagan or Ford? SMH
Interesting that, the “head Christian” does not employ Christians as security for himself. Since “anyone owning firearms is not a Christian” and his security team is armed to the teeth with guns, his close protectors are, per himself, not even of his own religion…..
I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but how can a person, like the Pope, as some have already mentioned, have a small army of armed men, and denounce guns, and gun manufacturers as bad? Does he say to us peasants, “Okay for me, but not for thee.” Michael Bloomberg and the Pope have a lot in common in that respect.
Thanks, Fezzywig.
In a Kingdom the only truly free person is the king. The Kingdom of God’s “representative on earth” is a vice-tyrant who knows that neither the nobles nor the serfs, nor apparently off-duty cops, are to be trusted with weapons, unless they are a conscript of God’s army, where God’s officers maintain order among the ranks by fear and force.
I feel sorry for Francis. If he is too conservative the serfs will rebel. If he is too liberal — and threatens the status quo of the church’s power — the Cardinals will have him killed. No autopsy is ever done on a Pope.
Francis recently tweeted: “The emptier a person’s heart is, the more he or she needs to buy, own and consume.” So says the man who lives in a private country, controls untold wealth, and tells the world that the wealthy are responsible for poverty while HE sits on his golden throne!
Having more children than you can afford entrenches poverty. Disease entrenches poverty. Telling 1.2 BILLION Catholics that condoms offend God and threaten their salvation entrenches more poverty than any other thing I can think of.
Pope Francis is in the worst of situations. Only tremendous ego keeps a man like that going. Benedict XVI was smarter: he resigned.
Well then, Mas, perhaps you’d like to expound on the impending loss of High Bridge Arms! I’d love to know your reaction to the owner’s coming departure and its impact on lawful gun owners in the Bay Area…I know you’ve been there once or several times! Since I avoid Commie-fornia like the plague, I’d like to know more about this place.
TXCOMT
If the Pope said ” Christians don’t have/ use guns” does he have non-Christian security?
If so, what incentive do they have to protect him? Do they think he’s just some guy? Or worse, do they think he’s a fraud? Also how could he trust them to provide the best possible security if they don’t share the same beliefs?
TXCOMT, I think the departure of a community’s last gun shop is a sad statement and a tragic triumph of misguided political correctness.
Re High Bridge Arms: It would seem that the anti-gun folks have, at least in this one place which is liberal enough to do it, learned a lesson from the anti-abortion folks: If you can’t prohibit it outright, try to regulate it out of existence.
There’s a whole world of various regulations which can be tried. Abortion clinics have to meet the same standards as outpatient surgical centers? Abortion doctors have to have admitting privileges at a local hospital? Hm … let’s see … Okay: Gun shops have to have all walls and ceiling made of hardened steel of a thickness able to stop armor piercing 50 cal rounds to protect the public from accidental discharges. All gun shops have to have a full-time EMT or nurse practitioner on duty at all times to deal with injuries caused by accidental discharges. Gun shops have to carry at least $750 million in liability insurance to indemnify people harmed by accidental discharges in the shop.
The fact that the history of people being actually injured by accidental discharges in gun shops shows that risk to be virtually nil? Hey, the same is true about women being harmed by the lack of the things in abortion I mentioned above.
The possible regulations are only limited by one’s imagination and if any one of them fails in court, you can just keep throwing them at the situation until some of them stick and pass muster in the courts. And politics are cyclical: Conservatives may be in control of Congress and most state legislatures at the moment, but the liberals will regain the high ground eventually.
The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence and the Brady Campaign should send National Right to Life a giant edible arrangement in thanks for the suggestion. Not only have they shown them the basic strategy, they’re also showing them through the count challenges to the abortion regulations that when those regulations are being passed that the legislators can’t gloat or otherwise admit that they’re being passed to limit abortion; you’ve got to toe the line and always claim that they’re for a legitimate purpose of protecting women who want abortions or, in this case, protecting the public and patrons from accidental discharges.
Please note that I’m only commenting upon the irony here, and I’m not implying that I approve of such tactics for either abortion or gun control. I don’t. However, I also express no opinion on the actual intent of the San Francisco regulations which have resulted in all gun shops in the city closing; I am only accepting as true for purposes of this discussion the claims of such shops and their supporters that the regs were passed for the purpose of putting them out of business. Perhaps there is some evidence — beyond them actually closing — to support that, perhaps there’s not, I don’t know. But the irony is the same nonetheless.
As concerning what the Pope says about not being a good Christian because the person is a firearm manufacturer, I believe he has a point. Producing weapons that can easily kill seems to be a contradiction for a good Christian.
I believe myself to be a good Christian. Years ago, when I had an FFL, I would occasionally repair a firearm. Sometimes, I would think about how I would feel if the owner used the repaired firearm to kill someone. I was never able to resolve the contradiction. I am sure that Mas has had similar thoughts, should one of his students go over to the dark side, and slaughter a group of people.
People that invest in car companies should also be in the same category.
At least he hasn’t been accused of gropery…
just saying…
s
Follow-up on prior discussion:
“An investigation by NYPD Inspector General Phil Eure [issued October 1, 2015] found NYPD cops ‘too often did not de-escalate encounters, failed to intervene in encounters where other officers used excessive force against members of the public – and escalated encounters themselves.’
…
“‘In dozens of incidents, officers were presented with the opportunity to de-escalate the situation but ultimately did not,’ the report states, finding the NYPD’s ‘policies and training currently do not adequately address de-escalation as a useful tactic for officers in the field.'”
From:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-failing-stop-cops-excessive-force-ig-report-article-1.2381055
De-escalation. Hmm, that sounds somehow … familiar. NYPD also issued new use-of-force and force reporting guidelines today.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/nypd-rolls-out-new-use-of-force-rules-1443715564
Mas and friends:
The personnel of the Swiss Guard are well armed these days- not just pikes and halberds. An interesting point has been raised- all members of the Swiss Guard are Swiss nationals, practicing Roman Catholics who have completed their active duty term in the Swiss Army. On the other hand, the Guardsmen do not “own” their weapons, they are issued to them. Perhaps it is not un Christian to merely USE weapons, as long as they are state-owned? Then there is the problem of denouncing manufacture- if the use of the guns by the Swiss Guard ( or other authority presumably) is not immoral, the how can CREATING these tools for appropriate use be wrong?
Francis is well-known for statements that are over the top and not well thought out.
The Pope, is still, at heart, an anti-establishment leftist pacifist from a second world country. This colors his theology, soteriology and philosophy.
Leftists don’t like guns unless they are in the hands of the Party or State , as a consequence it is easy, to make statements such as ” guns are not appropriate for Christians” – even if they are internally contradictory.
I am sure the Pope would agree that if only there had been proper club control, Cain would not have murdered Abel.
Regards
GKT
In reference to the Pope’s anti-gun statements, they are entirely predictable given his left-wing worldview.
As I have noted in previous comments, the left-wing / right-wing worldview split arises from varying simplifying assumptions made about humanity at the subconscious level.
At a subconscious level, the Pope has made the optimistic assumption that “all humans are basically good”. Therefore, to account for the manifest power of evil in the world, the Pope is forced (by his own assumption) down a path which leads him to view evil as arising from environmental or social factors. A leftist always views evil as coming not from human nature but from how a human is nurtured. Hillary Clinton’s famous quote of an African proverb that “it takes a village to raise a child (properly)” is an example of the leftist thought pattern that all the ills of the world arise due to external factors of the outer world (i.e nurture) rather than from internal factors related to human choice (i.e. nature). So, the left /right split is just a political variant of the “Nature vs. Nurture” debate.
As a leftist, the Pope is “self-programmed” to view the roots of violence as springing from external factors such as racism, poverty and (especially) weapon ownership. Therefore, in the Pope’s mind, there is no difference between denouncing racism and poverty (as a matter of Christian Faith) and denouncing gun ownership / manufacturing as against the Faith.
Never mind that firearms were not even invented until after the Bible was written and the Christian Faith established, the Pope’s own internal worldview is pointing him in a direction whereby his faith is colored by his own leftist belief system.
You bring up some fascinating points, LibDave…on the face of it, this means SF has become the Chicago of the West Coast, meaning no gun shops in the cess-, er, city itself. As usual, however, this won’t dampen the continuing efforts of the criminal element in those places to illegally procure firearms. It only hurts the honest folk (and, in the case of High Bridge Arms, the well-heeled, from what I’ve read).
Back to you, Mas…this would normally be the point where I, as well as others, I bet, would ask for comments on the Oregon murders, but I know it’s early. This horrific event is sadly coincidental, as a study done by Texas A&M (insert Aggie joke here) was just released this week saying there is no correlation between crime rates and CHL licenses. In other words, according to one of the profs on the project, more guns does not equal less crime!
Regardless, there are more than 800,000 CHL holders here in the Lone Star State who probably disagree!
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