Ah, me, once again the Prohibitionists want to take away the property of the innocent as if that will somehow impact the guilty. Once again, a respected citizen, a municipal employee, snaps and commits mass murder with ordinary handguns he legally purchased, passing background checks. Reference is made by reporters to one of the .45 caliber pistols he used having a sound suppressor. If that’s true, and he got it legally, the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives checked him out over a period of months and found him clean. So much for the proposed mandatory background checks which, as most of them are written, would prevent you from selling or lending a gun to a friend, neighbor, or relative.
And once again, we hear the cry, “They’re good guys with guns, until they aren’t,” with the implicit or even explicit meaning that none of us can be trusted.
My answer to that is this: Mr. or Ms. Gun Prohibitionist, if you’re saying that all the rest of us are potentially dangerously unstable, but you’re not and somehow have the moral and ethical standing to disarm the rest of us, you have just confessed to narcissistic elitism. Aren’t you the very ones who, in another context, tell America we should not listen to narcissistic elitists?
And if you include yourself in your belief that all of us could snap at any moment and commit mass murder, why should any of us be guided by a self-confessed potential monster? Because, you see, the rest of us aren’t like that, or America’s streets would look like the set of “The Walking Dead” TV show.
The never-ending debate continues. Permit me to share some debate points I’ve found effective in the past. You can find them here
Understanding the gun debate, part 1
Understanding the gun debate, part 2
Understanding the gun debate, part 3
Bear in mind that they were written in 2016, when Barack Obama was still President.
Feel free to share. Go on talk radio shows where this topic is discussed. Write letters to the editor and op-eds for your local newspapers. Only constant infusions of the truth can defeat the lies so boldly propagated by the Prohibitionists.
As I noted in a previous comment, Governor Northam’s current zeal to go for more Firearms Prohibition is personal. While I have no doubt that Northam is an anti-gun zealot at heart, he especially wants to push it now because of his “Black Face” scandal. He knows that playing the “NRA Fighter” Card is a sure and proven method to generate Good Press from the Anti-American Media. He needs that Good Press to help keep him in-power. So, while the Virginia Beach Shooting is really not that good of a case for Prohibition arguments, he is willing to run with anything available given his personal circumstances.
The Gun Prohibitionists can’t really use the Virginia Beach shooting to argue for their usual favorites of (A) Universal Back-ground Checks and (B) so-called Assault Weapon Bans. This murderer did not use a semi or fully automatic rifle and he had a clean background. So, no background check ever devised would have worked.
However, the Left still thinks that there are a couple of areas that they can “Cherry Pick” out of this mass-murder and use. One is their old favorite of large capacity magazines since the murderer is reported to have used such in his .45 caliber pistols. I have not seen any information on the size magazines actually used nor on the model of pistol. I assume that they were not 1911’s with standard 7 or 8 round magazines. However, one never knows. The anti-gun Press is perfectly capable of calling an 8-rounder a “Large Capacity Magazine” if it will push their narrative. Of course, a Glock 21 with its standard 13-round magazines would also immediately be declared as “Large Capacity”.
The other area is to push for a suppressor ban. See this story:
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_5f0bde4e-8660-11e9-b20e-9ff07af186a9.html
Supposedly, the murderer used a legal suppressor. If so, that shows the futility of background checks since, to obtain a Class III device, the murderer passed an extensive BATFE background check right down to his finger-prints. Since suppressors are already heavily regulated, they are just skipping the Background Check/Registration stage and are going straight for Prohibition. Their success at banning bump stocks gives them hope that they can replicate that model with other items. The use, by this murderer, of a suppressor opens a door for them to try. As I have noted before, the Left often follows a policy of incremental prohibition and they are more then willing to “Piece-meal” their way to their ultimate goal of the Universal Disarmament of the American Citizen.
This is why one should never, never, never, never, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give in even one INCH to the demands of the Firearms Prohibitionists. That INCH only encourages them to grab it and try to stretch it out a MILE! Firearms Prohibition MUST be absolutely DEFEATED! There is no doing a DEAL with the Leftist Gun-Grabbers any more then there would be doing a deal with SATAN!
What I have not mentioned in any of the mainstream press articles about the Virginia shooter is that he was a black man who converted to Islam and a registered Democrat voter. I wonder why?
That should read “What I have not seen mentioned….”
They claim gun owners could snap at any moment.
They ignore that those without guns can do the same at any moment as you point out Mas.
They should try recognizing that the world is not safe from even supposedly sane individuals. Thus they should be prepared … to wait for ‘helpers’ for rescue, or to defender themselves, or to just hope & pray they are lucky, or to die.
There are choices in life. A choice for gun control that will not work is a choice to empower & embolden criminals & others who will find a way regardless of laws. And a choice to make good citizens more defenseless against such individuals. And a choice to further a social construct that good people are helpless and dependent on government.
Sadly, people simply cannot see reality. This is true for numerous reasons, be they endogenous or exogenous.
I’m a Virginia resident.
Northam has basically been in hiding since the blackface scandal broke…
This incident is a twofold windfall for him…
He not only gets to crawl out from under his rock, but gets to rant and rave about about his true pet project, which is gun control…
I’ve seen discussions on the issue of meds and mass murder in the past. Here’s a recent one…
https://www.dcclothesline.com/2019/05/18/prescription-for-violence-the-corresponding-rise-of-antidepressants-ssris-mass-shootings/
The most experienced doctors I know say it’s unclear if it’s the meds that are the cause in the horrific events by SOME taking them or have recently stopped taking them, or if the mental condition that necessitated them was the principle motivation for the shooter.
I don’t know anything about the VA shooter. From the little I’ve seen I doubt it’s islamic terrorism, or black identity related, which are the other big 2 mass murder categories apparent in the US to me.
Thus I expect years from now, in some research paper, we will find antidepressants (did the wife just leave him?) or SSRIs factoring in the event.
The lesson? I suggest alternate medications need be developed and used. In the mean time folks who legitimately are under medications that can so alter their mental state should be treated with due respect as fellow humans but not left to themselves with firearms.
The key ingredient in virtually every mass shooting in recent decades is… that the shooter is an isolated male on the fringes of society who… had been on prescribed psychotropic drugs for his learning disabilities or anti-social behavior. In almost all cases, the shooting takes place SHORTLY AFTER THE PERSON STOPS TAKING THE DRUGS.
Was this the case with Craddock, the Virginia shooter?
The stoppage of taking meds is the vulnerable period for people who are supposed to take these drugs, but stop taking their meds. In many cases, this is when the young male just commits suicide (and never shoots anyone else). But some form the idea of shooting a group of people…
What is so unusual, yet definitive, about many of these mass shootings is how the shooter takes time to plot the event but often just wants to die — commits suicide or lets the cops kill him — after the event. These are folks whose mood and temperament has been altered by the medicines and who have lost the ability to consider the human consequences of what they plan to do. It is amazing how many of these shootings lack a political, social, or even personal agenda, too. There is little logic or even anger to it — just a pre-meditated drive to kill innocent people. The shooter is compelled internally to the act, not driven by any higher thought, and bereft of any consideration of the real impact. THERE IS A PATTERN HERE. This type of act is “criminal” of course but lacks the usual criminal motivation of money, turf battles, revenge/retaliation, etc., we see in most “criminal” shootings, e.g., Baltimore, Chicago, etc.
So with that Virginia shooter, Craddock, a man who was 40, was there a history of his being given psychotropic drugs by Psychiatrists? None of the articles mention it — but it is worth finding out. In virtually all of the other mass shootings, the history of the shooter eventually comes out and you can find that this was the case – that they were given these drugs, often while in school, but probably stopped taking them prior to the event. That “rebound” period of coming off the drugs is a period of greater instability that is well known to shrinks who prescribe these drugs… and almost certainly can be tied to other types of violence and/or suicides that don’t get the media coverage of a mass shooting.
So here is something that we should be investigating. If what I have gathered from numerous reports can be confirmed, then there IS something that can be done about mass shootings. “Mental Health Care” not just as a generic idea, but specifically have doctors monitor their patients when they prescribe mood-altering drugs — and figure out how to ensure the worst cases get their meds continually (or are weaned from them carefully). In some cases, where young men “drop off the map” after they leave school, something like implanted “pumps” that continue dosages autonomously might be an answer. But awareness could well prevent many of the cases, and incidentally also prevent a number of suicides, by these lost souls.
This is an area someone should seriously study. Clearly, “name checks” are not the answer to this sort of problem. Nor are all the other “gun control” measures, because these people have time and the will to get their hands on guns — they often steal them from family members if others means don’t suffice. They want to kill or do damage and then go out.
Perhaps these mass shootings can be lessened in number — if we take the time to look for the underlying reasons and warning signs.
Can we just say that if we eliminated guns from all Democrats, that it would probably stop 95% of “gun violence “.
1: Legalize the murder of innocent Americans, ie, both unborn and accidentally born babies and the elderly.
2: Disarm those who would stand in their way.
3: Legalize drugs so the rest can get stoned and not care.
Rome is burning. Let them eat cake.
It is hard to know the motive for the Virginia Beach murders. According to news reports, Craddock sent an email, prior to the murders, in which he resigned from his job for “personal reasons”. However, it is said that his work performance was satisfactory and that he was under no pressure to resign.
On the surface, this rampage seems to have some things in common with the Las Vegas murders. For example:
1) Both men had no social-media history. There are no “On-Line” insights into their mental states. No history of extreme religious or political philosophies.
2) Both men seem to have “squeaky clean” criminal and mental-health records. They purchased their weapons legally and, easily, passed all background checks.
3) Both men seem to be reasonably successful. There is no evidence of significant financial problems.
4) Both men were “loners” but did have previous relationships with women.
5) Both men employed unusual weapons during their attacks. The Las Vegas killer, Stephen Paddock, used bump stocks. The Virginia Beach Killer, DeWayne Craddock, used a suppressor. In both cases, the use of unusual weapons “opened the door” for the Firearm Prohibitionists to attack ownership of these unusual devices by the public.
6) Because of the lack of motives and because of the utility provided to push the Firearms Prohibition agenda, there have been “Conspiracy Theories” surrounding both shootings. It is said that they are “False Flag” events designed to push disarmament of the American People and to offer a method by which the Anti-American Media can “change the narrative” and “distract” the American People from looking too hard at “Deep State” activity. The Virginia Beach crime also comes in uncommonly handy for Governor Northam and his redemption efforts.
Heck, the last names of the killers even rhyme! 🙂
I don’t know about some of the items above. However, the Virginia Beach crime seems to be another one in the “strange” category.
The Centers for Disease Control publishes an annual mortality report on causes of death in the US. Murder is the cause of death in a very small fraction of overall deaths. Mass murders, like the recent one in Virginia, in a very, very, very small fraction of overall deaths. School mass murders are a very, very, very, very, very, very small fraction of deaths.
“Gun control” proponents says they want to save lives. BS!!! If they really wanted to save lives, lots of lives, they would advocate for mandatory universal flu shots, elimination of sugary drinks, elimination of tobacco use, zero tolerance for driving after consuming alcohol or pot, etc., etc. There are lots of things that could be done to avoid preventable deaths that would save more lives than all the murders in a year.
“Gun control” is not about saving lives. It is about attempting to safeguard the grip on power of those who have power. All through history the aristocrats and tyrants have wanted to disarm the peasants so the peasants could not challenge the power of the aristocrats and tyrants. The twentieth century saw numerous examples of despots disarming the people: Russia as it was transformed into the USSR, China, Cuba under Castro, etc. Even now the people of the Sudan and Venezuela lack the arms needed to throw off despots who govern without the consent of the governed.
@ Peter Hedglon – You are 100% correct in your comment above. If the goal was to truly save lives, there are many, many, many more fruitful avenues to push rather than Firearms Prohibition. Besides the ones that you listed above, medical errors are a huge cause of death in the USA. See this link:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/03/476636183/death-certificates-undercount-toll-of-medical-errors
So, do we see leftist marches and protests to save lives by reducing medical errors? Does the Left constantly clamor for legislation to improve health care by reducing medical errors? Hell No, you don’t see those things. You don’t see them because reducing medical errors does not promote Left-Wing ideology nor does it help keep the Liberal Elites in-power.
The clamor by the gun-grabbers to “save lives” by passing laws to disarm the American People is just more lies and deceit from the American Left. It is a smokescreen to hide their true agenda. As you noted, these leftists are tyrants who want to seize and hold power forever. They full well know that the first, most basic, step to doing exactly that is to disarm the people. Disarming the people is the true goal of firearms prohibition. The leftists don’t give a rat’s behind about saving lives. Do you know what the leftists really, in their hearts, think about saving lives? The following quote provides the answer:
“If for the sake of communism, it is necessary for us to destroy 9/10ths of the people, we must not hesitate.” – Vladimir Lenin (1921)
Mas,
“Narcissistic elitists.” Your pen or word processor hit the 10X with that description!
Sad to see VA change from red to blue. I’m sure the Left is trying to do the same with other states like TX.
I’m so tired of gun prohibition that I’m ready to allow criminals to own guns. Only the misuse of guns would be penalized. We would stop worrying about who owns guns. Of course that sounds crazy so I need another argument.
Since guns cannot be kept out of criminal hands, (similar to how drugs cannot be kept out of prisons) then we need to allow citizens to carry them almost everywhere. That way they can shoot back when the attack comes. We can’t stop the attack, but we can make it brief.
I understand Craddock killed 12 people. Imagine if he killed 3, then one of the victims shot back. This victim was such a bad shooter, that in addition to killing Craddock, he also killed 2 innocent bystanders. Now we have 5 dead people instead of 12. That is still a marked improvement over what actually happened.
America is doomed because of ignorant voters.
As I reviewed the article linked below, I thought back to my active duty Army years from 1977 to 1983 and reflected upon the many Virginia “country boys” who served their nation proudly next to me, first in a leg infantry battalion and then in a SF Group’s military intelligence company.
These fellow soldiers who hailed from Virginia’s hills, mountains and swamps were salt of the earth men who excelled at the rifle range. They had been raised as “shooters” from an early age. They spoke often with pride and reverence about the various handguns, rifles and shotguns that they owned and intended to pass down to their children and grandchildren.
Fast forward from 1983 to 2019. I am curious just how Governor Northam’s “s—t sandwich” of gun and magazine bans and red flag laws is going to be received by the natives of Virginia’s hills, mountains and swamps. The crime-ridden southern suburbs of metro-DC Virginia are a gazillion miles away culturally from the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Dismal Swamp.
Will gun owners throughout rural Virginia eat Governor Northam’s virulently nasty anti-gun sandwich, or not?
“Northam sets July 9 for special session to consider gun control legislation”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/northam-sets-july-9-for-special-session-to-consider-gun-control-legislation/2019/06/07/03f210b2-8937-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html
Northam has to control the media cycle to keep people from talking about his blackface photo.
The left is just using mass shootings as an excuse to seize guns because it would make it easier for them to seize and keep power.
How come every time a drunk driver crashes and kills someone there isn’t a massive public outcry to further restrict or outright abolish the consumption of alcohol? It happens way more frequently than gun violence. Often from repeat offenders.
Jake,
We could prevent nearly ALL traffic deaths if cars and trucks had mandated governors on their engines which would only allow them to be driven up to 10 or 15 miles per hour.
Many things, if they were invented today, would be outlawed because they are just too dangerous. Cars, football, boxing and ice hockey are only allowed today because of tradition. Same goes for alcohol.
Lots of posts here about this and that and what doen’t seem relevant. I posted a coupla times about the alleged “bump-stock” that was used in the Nevada shooting.
To date, I am yet to see the evidence, other than accusation and hear-say that a bump-stock was used. PROVE IT! …and it’s banned now nationwide, sight unseen.
Now we have a suppressor “used” in the VA murder. Fine and dandy, now we have our esteemed president exploring the ban of a can! SERIOUSLY?!!!
Death by a thousand cuts, just another nic in the neck of our constitution.
Stay safe.
And these elitists would have us defend ourselves, “…with what? Spit balls?” The only way to deter a maniac whose switch is “stuck on murder” is to cause a violent retaliation to his/her violence. Ala , Col. Jeff Cooper.
There is still no information on the specific model(s) of handguns used in the Virginia Beach murders. Distilling the various news reports gives the following:
1) Two handguns in .45 acp caliber were used.
2) These handguns are said to have “large capacity” magazines. How large is not reported.
3) At least one of the handguns is said to have been fitted with a suppressor.
4) The handguns are said to have been legally purchased by the killer, DeWayne Craddock, in 2016 and 2018.
If we assumed that (A) the above information is correct (a dangerous assumption with the Anti-American Media given their left-wing agenda) and (B) the handguns were not specifically modified to take a suppressor, then this points to some version of a tactical .45 handgun being used.
The best candidate would likely be the FN FNX-45 tactical model. This model pistol comes, factory ready, with a threaded barrel to accept a suppressor. It uses 15-round magazines. Typically, three (3) magazines are supplied with each pistol when purchased. Furthermore, this model has been on the market for several years and was available prior to 2016 and is still available today.
This is not the only candidate. Remington also make a R1 Tactical handgun based upon the 1911 design but with some versions having double-stack 15-round magazines. However, the FNX-45 Tactical has been on the market longer and is more readily available. There may be other models on the market that fit the bill as well. Still, the list of possible models is not large.
The Anti-gun media would certainly call the standard 15-round magazines of the FNX-45 large capacity. Even assuming that Craddock did not buy any extra magazines, if he purchased two of these handguns, he would have a received six magazines holding a total of 90 rounds of ammunition. Probably enough to complete this crime assuming that all magazines were fully loaded.
Still, it would be good to have exact information rather then just take the media’s lying word for the type of weapons used. We know the media will bias their reporting to favor the firearms prohibition agenda and, without specific knowledge about the weapons, the pro-gun advocates will be at a disadvantage as the gun-grabbers push for magazine capacity limits and suppressor bans. No doubt, that is why the information is being withheld from the public.
If you open a web browser and google the following question:
Did ‘Silencer’ make a difference in Virginia Beach?
You will see literally thousands of news stories where that exact same question is asked over and over and over again. These stories seem to be running on every web site and in every newspaper controlled by the left-wing media.
Rush Limbaugh has often pointed out that the Drive-by Media has developed a “hive mind” and that someone seems to be putting out “talking points” that numerous media people grab and run with. He often puts out montages that show different media people, in completely different outlets, using the sames words and phrases all at the same time.
Clearly someone issued a talking point or instruction that directed all the media drones to attack suppressors by writing stories that ask the above question as a means to imply that the Virginia Beach shooting was made more deadly because such a device was used.
The tactic worked so well with bump-stocks that the firearms prohibitionists are now wanting to use it upon suppressors. In addition, the NRA has recently supported the pushed to relax the regulations on suppressors given their utility in hearing safety. This mass-murder is a golden opportunity for the Firearm Prohibitionists to counter-attack the NRA on this issue. Of course, the Anti-American media are glad to ‘lend a hand” and pile onto the issue as shown by these thousands of simultaneous propaganda pieces.
President Trump was speaking God’s Truth when he named the fake-news media as “The Enemy of the American People”. Fighting the American Left is like fighting the Borg in Star Trek!
TN_MAN,
You are right about Rush seeing the “hive mind” of the media, and getting their talking points from one source. FoxNews Channel will show the same thing using video clips of media organizations all using the exact same phrases. I can’t remember the specific shows on which I’ve seen this. The Blaze (Glenn Beck) may also do the same, showing video clips of media people parroting each other.
What Gov. Northam recommends and fact based arguments against those recommendations.:
Universal background checks (UBC).
Response: What UBC’s do is criminalize the private transfer of private property from the owner to anyone else. Private sales are legal in Virginia. The Virginia Beach Shooter (VBS) purchased his weapons thru a licensed dealer which means that this first law would not have prevented the shooting.
A ban on assault weapons, to include suppressors and bump stocks;
Response: The VBS used two 1911 .45 pistols. No semi-automatic rifles were used. This law would not have prevented the shooting.
While as of this writing the list of evidence has not proven that a suppressor was used, they are legal to purchase and own. The process takes around six months to complete thru the BATFE and includes a federal background check. Suppressors do not make a firearm more accurate, more deadly, nor does it “silence” the weapon. This law would not have prevented the shooting.
Bump stocks are already illegal under federal law . They can’t be more illegal by Virginia passing a law banning them. The shooter did not use a bump stock.
This law shows how ignorant Gov. Northam is about US gun laws and would not have prevented the shooting.
An extreme risk protective order;
Response: The VBS was not under a protective order of any kind nor was there any evidence that he was considered a danger to himself or others.
This law would not have prevented the shooting.
Reinstating the one-gun-a-month law;
Response: The VBS bought one handgun in 2016 and the other in 2018.
This law would not have prevented the shooting.
Child access prevention;
Response: The VBS shooter was an adult. This law would not have prevented the shooting.
Requiring people to report lost and stolen firearms;
Response: The VBS shooter did not use a stolen or lost gun.
This law would not have prevented the shooting.
Expanding local authority to regulate firearms, including in government buildings.
Response: As evidenced by numerous shootings in federal, state, and other non-government buildings, “Gun Free Zones” do not prevent shooters from entering a building with a gun. They only prevent law abiding citizens from legally carrying a gun to defend themselves against active shooters. Virginia Beach employees are prohibited from carrying firearms(Employee Handbook, par. 2.2.B [Va. Beach Employee Handbook](https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Policy-6.18-07182012-Weapons-Policy.pdf )) This law would not have prevented the shooting.
@ Gunny_Doug – Thank you for the link to the City of Virginia Beach Weapons Policy. I read it with sadness. It’s claimed purpose is to “reduce the risk of violence”. It is an utter and complete failure in meeting this goal. All it accomplishes is to strip city employees of any chance of self-defense against an armed mass-murderer. If one was to look up the word “Counterproductive” in the dictionary, it could use this policy as an example of the meaning of the word.
This policy turns any city building into killing ground for psychopaths. What goes through the minds of the bureaucrats who write such policies? Is it left-wing ideology based upon the delusional belief that all people are innately good and that disarming them will help keep them good by cutting off their access to those “Evil” weapons? Or is it a cold calculation that it is a lower liability risk for the city to let its employees be slaughtered rather then take the chance of having some of them carry firearms on the job and possibly misusing them?
The people who wrote and enacted this policy have as much blood on their hands as the murderer himself. It is too bad that they can’t be brought into the dock and charged with 12 counts of Accessory to Murder for they are certainly guilty.
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