QUICK HANDGUN ACCESS FOR THE WHEELCHAIR-BOUND

Looks like a winner.

So does this qualify as “carrying” or is it storing in a “vehicle” (especially if it is motorized like a Hoveround)?

I like the concept. The location of the gun on the wheelchair probably is superior to body carry for quick access & for gun security. With this equipment, the user would also have the element of surprise on his side, under most circumstances.

The only potential problem that I can see is that, as the cover was removed to provide access to the weapon during the demonstration, the firearm briefly became visible before it could be drawn. This could be mitigated by either speed or the use of tactics, though.

For instance, in the face of an imminent attack, the user could subtly maneuver the wheelchair so that the weapon side faces away from the attacker, blocking the assailant’s view of the weapon until it has been fully drawn. With this technique, it might also be possible to hand the assailant what appears to be a closed pack containing valuables with the weak-side hand, as a distraction, while drawing the gun out of sight with the strong-side hand. I would prefer that to throwing the cover towards the assailant, with the risk of a reflexive gunshot in return. However, if the wheelchair bound victim is actually under physical attack, stealth would not be anywhere near as important as speed, so it could be dispensed with.

It would be even more difficult to mask the gun during the draw in the case of multiple assailants surrounding the victim. Of course, multiple assailants are a substantial challenge under any circumstances, so a surreptitious draw might be the least of his problems. Tactical awareness to avoid that situation would certainly take precedence.

An improvement to the system might be a method that allows the user to draw the gun & the pack concealing it at the same time, preferably with one hand. That way, the user could point the gun at the assailant & either fire it through the pack or pull the gun away from the pack as it’s presented to the attacker, so that the gun would be blocked from view until the last possible moment before firing.

Conceivably, this could be accomplished with the present system by removing the pack with the weak hand & simultaneously drawing the gun with the strong hand while holding the pack so as to block the view of the gun as it is presented to the assailant(s). If done carefully, it could look as though the pack was being presented to the assailant(s) with both of the victim’s hands.

I would like to point out that I do believe, as you have taught, that in the event of an armed robbery the safest & smartest thing to do is to give up your wallet, or at least a dummy wallet with some money in it. As you have pointed out, it’s far less expensive than the legal fees you will incur from being involved in a shooting, even when you are justified in using lethal force. However, in the event of a life threatening attack, I do think that, with practice, this equipment could be used very effectively for self-defense.

Watch the video again. The idea is to throw the bag distracting the b.g.’s attention away as you draw. B.g.s are greedy and will go for it. Able bodied people can then run away. This has been a tactic I’ve known of for at least twenty years. See how fast he has the gun while you’re following the bag.

An important component of this system is the ability to practice (and compete) safely with out undue changes in range procedures. The more options to choose from the better for everyone. On a side, have you ever see a group of blind bullseye shooters? I had the privilege in college and it was impressive.

We’ve discussed this on another board I frequent. I was involved in an on duty vehicle accident in Sept 2010. Extensive damage to my right leg and left hip with attendant nerve damage left me bedridden for several months, finally graduating to a wheelchair. It really opened my eyes as to just how vulnerable I was in a chair.

The video was really interesting. Though I like the concept, the only fault I see is if the predator(s) overturn me in my chair in a first strike move. Then I’m separated from my gun. That’s the only reason I prefer on-body carry.

I experimented with several different types of bag carry, slung over my shoulder so it couldn’t be ripped off by body forcibly. It required me carrying a J Frame type revolver because of weight, and the draw was slow.

I went to cross draw carry, but gave that up because I’m in shape…hey, round is a shape!…and was also a pain when I had to use public facilities (just where to you put a loaded weapon out of a holster when you have to maneuver from one seat to another and drop your drawers?)

Though I haven’t liked shoulder rigs in the past, I went ahead and ordered one from Kramer. It is very comfortable. Not quick on the draw, but always available, and I’m carrying a 1911 with two reloads. At home, I usually have a Model 19 or Colt Officer’s Model in my lap or beside me.

Thanks, Mas. It’s great to see someone address this issue…one I didn’t think about until it happened to me.

It seemed to come off quite easily. What would happen in a crowded situation, such as an elevator or crowd in a store, if it got rubbed hard? Someone’s briefcase catching on it? Would it come off too easily? Could some idiot kid with too much curiosity lift it off easily? There could be some liability issues there. Other than that, the only other problem I can see is that you’re using your shooting hand to remove the cover and have to acquire a proper grip after removal and disposal of the cover. That could take a second or two.

Mas,
I have followed your blog, TV, podcasts, etc… for several years now and the one area of self defense you rarely cover is us handicapped folks who have no ability to run away from an attack. There are more than the wheelchair bound that do not have this option. Do any of your MAG classes focus on us with limited to no ability to flee? If you have any suggestions I would really be interested.
Thanks, Gary

Or, attach the pack to the chair, and have a “gun pocket” behind the main compartment. That way, the user has a place to carry the other “stuff” and a discreet place to replace the gun. Also, the act of throwing the cover seems to me to be a risky waste of time and motion.

System appears functional for purposes listed.

Excellent method to provide opportunity to participate in competitions and other range activities.

Situation: Person is attacked and separated from wheelchair. (Push-over, yank-out, similar actions).

Defensive weapon does not travel with victim and may become accessible to perp(s).

Thoughts?

Mike

Interesting concept but I noticed that his wheelchair is not a standard one (no arms). “Regular” wheelchairs have the arms “in the way” and I don’t believe you can just cut them off as they are part of the structure. I spent a year in one (after a bad motorcycle accident) and used a “concealed carry specific” fanny pack which worked well.
Lastly, I would feel more comfortable with the gun on my person in case of inadvertent separation from the wheelchair.

Judging from the comments here, as well as my own personal observations, I think this system will do well to incorporate one, rather old, piece of technology.

The Lanyard.

Mike, there’s always a tradeoff of accessibility vs. concealment, especially when someone’s mobility is hampered such as a person being confined to a wheelchair.

To keep the gun with the person, they have to on-body carry, which limits their speed of draw OR ability to reholster (which, unlike the bipedal among us, is necessary for them to move, which they NEED to not just in competition but also for defense) unless carrying fully open (which they may not be able to do legally or it is unwise for them to do so due to vulnerability to a gun-grab).

A backup gun is always a good idea, however. I’d say that if ANYONE is carrying a backup (which I think is a very good idea), it SHOULD be on-body carry always. For the wheelchair-bound this is doubly so.

I say this, however, as one who is not wheelchair-bound nor has ever been.

~James

Hi Mas,

I think the concept is great with one caveat: If I had a chair-bound student who wanted to use this type of holster with or without the fake bag cover, I would INSIST that he or she also carry a second handgun on his person, either in cross-draw, shoulder holster, or at the very least, in an ankle holster. The reason:

In many attacks and muggings of chair-bound individuals, the first act of the perpetrator(s) is to knock the victim out of the chair and onto the ground. If this happens, with this carry system the victim is now weaponless.

Worse yet, what happens when a perp goes to snatch what he thinks is a purse or wallet mounted on the wheelchair and – SURPRISE! – it’s his lucky day! Now he has a pistol that is within his reach to the same extent it’s within the victim’s reach – but he (the perp) has the element of surprise on his side. I’d say odds in this situation are 50/50 at the very best. No where near good enough in my book. At least if he snatches it and our chair-bound victim has a second gun, he can go for it (hopefully while the crook is confused and trying to figure out how to make that first 1911 work).

All the best,

.45StayAlive

All good comments, several things I failed to include in the video (tried to keep it short) Being a true Para (waist down) without the chair I have NO mobility… So your in the shower and the bad guy is trying to break in… do you have time to transfer into the chair, put your holster on and then investigate? (maybe you shower with your pistol, I prefer my wife!) … Your’e in bed at night, something is going on and you have to investigate. Do you have time to struggle into the chair, retrieve your handgun … then what? you would have to strap a belt on to be mobile, or set it in your lap and risk having it fall off while moving (or worse!) The idea here is as soon as I transfer into the chair, from bed, shower, couch, ETC. I’m armed and mobile. In short the pistol is with me at all times. A backup in public you bet! this is my primary.

It’s seems to me that all your ideas are good. You all valid points of view . How’s about a hybrid . Chair mount as primary carry method and onbody as secondary carry method when your away from home. I would consider mounting you gun either in from of you or off to you weak side , sort of like a desk top. As for at home encounters shoulder holster , bandoleer , maxpedition or even some type of chest mounted rig like ( 5.11 ) all seem like possible way to carry. Anyway just an idea.

I own many of these holster mounts for various pistols. I also have the pouch. If you are at home, work, just relaxing outside the gun is right there by your side. No need to stap on a cross draw holster under your shirt or under a jacket. Same goes for the shoulder holsters. I have belly band, chest and shoulder holsters and in my opinion the wheelchair mount with uncle mikes or black hawk holsters far exceeds those other holsters that I own because I can get to my weapon and put it away fast enough to move quickly away from the situation that has presented itself. Like in Scots video if I had the chest, shoulder, or crossdraw holsters I would be slower to back away from the situation because I am fumbling with a shirt or jacket. I wear my wheelchair mount daily and no one is the wiser that I have a gun hidden under the black pouch. I have noticed a few other comments that I have to agree with, if someone wants to rob you and you throw the pouch they will follow that pouch which gives you a few more seconds to draw that weapon and surprise your attacker. We are looked at as weaker or an easy target but with these mounts that thinking will hopefully change and people will think twice before trying to harm or rob someone in a wheelchair.

I have personally worked with Scot, the inventor, of this rig and it makes all the other carries for the wheelchair bound folks obsolete and potentially dangerous. As we know without lot’s of practice carrying in a holster or pack in any kind of configuration handicaps you if you have to move. Putting a hot weapon on your lap is not only dangerous but potential of losing the gun while moving is a possibility. The ability to quickly re holster the gun and move and then re-draw the hot gun is outstanding and has been approved by IPSC and other sanctioned competitions. The idea of tossing the cover at a potential bad guy is an old trick even we able folks have trained for. Great idea and I personally think that anyone who try’s this system will find it superior to any other kind of carry for the wheel chair bound.

From a martial artist with over 45 years of mixed style training, and even more practice with firearms perspective, Scots ideas seem to be the Very Best for his situation. There are always those who want to “say ya but what if.” Even the President gets shot sometimes despite many millions of $$$ being spent on his protection, so nothing is fool proof all the time.

Even able bodied men armed to the teeth with decades of training can be beaten somehow, the idea is to make it hard as possible. The safety of not covering ones body in a high stress scary situation outweighs the advantages of having the primary weapon on his body. Those who are not in a wheelchair full time dont think like someone who is. Pay attention to Scot. I have seen him do things to able bodied people while he is in his chair that is amazingly fast and painful to them. I would enjyoy watching him unarmed show those nay sayers who tried to touch him a lesson.

Thanks, Mas. I just forwarded the link to a friend who’s wheelchair bound.

HOWDY YALL, I’VE BEEN CONFINED TO A WHELE CHAIR FOR 21 YEARS . I’M SEEKING A DEFENSIVE WEAPON SYSTEM IN THE EVENT AN EPISODE OCCURS A NON EXPLOWSIVE CHAIN GUN APPRATUS I’L, BE ABLE TO MOUNT ON MY ” PERMAMOBILE ” PLEASE SEND ME ALL THE DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS YOUVE GOT. MUCH APPRECIATIVE .

I love the idea. But it will not fit the wheel chair that I have. Mine is a basic, standard chair currently with short arm rests.
Is it possible for you to make an adjusted bracket to fit the standard style chair?
If my second hip replacement surgery goes well, I will be out of the wheelchair in six to eight months. That is a long time to be vulnerable.
The idea of a fanny pack is appealing, but with the incision for the hip replacement, it won’t work.
I have devised ways to carry on my body that are functional but extremely slow. Having your system adapted to the “regular” style wheel chair would allow for the “quick draw” that is not possible with on body carry.
Any plans to make such a bracket available?

Rick, I can take a look at the frame you are using to see if we can make a custom setup for ya. Send me a note through my website and Ill do my best to set ya up. http://www.scotworksllc.com

Best Regards: Scot

I am disable, paralyzed from the waist down. I also carry daily, and am a NRA Instructor is several disciplines. I really like this concept and will probably obtain one and try it awhile. My concerns are this, the gun in the holster concealed or no is as close to others as it is to me. I have a bit of concern from a retention standpoint. I agree with many here that the convenience of having it chair mounted is tremendous, unless you have to separate from the chair…. HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. Let me list just a couple of examples;
Haircut – yes I transfer to the barber chair.
Getting into my vehicle, the chair gets thrown in back after I take the drivers seat.
Getting into other vehicles, taxis, bus, trains etc. may times staying in my chair or even within arms reach is not always possible.
Mowing the lawn 🙂 or other equally mundane crap well that can all be dealt with by having the entire rig “convertible” into some sort of neck or shoulder bag. I like what he has going on here, and the ability to simply pull the thing off is great. zippers and velcro are BS when it comes to holsters, sorry but its just not ideal.

Lets say that cover rather than coming completely off simply hinges away like a fancy binoc cover. then hangs down exposing the top of the handgun holster, extra mag an flashlight. If I could snap the whole thing off the chair still covered, and throw a strap around my neck, shoulder or waist that would be perfect.

Right now I carry in one of two ways, in a “chair pouch” between my legs, its open but the black gun inside the black bag with top flap barely open is completely invisible. yet without zippers or velcro I simply insert a hand between my knees (also keep my wallet near there) and I have a hand full of .40S&W, flashlight and laser. The only problem is if Im going to be out of the chair and away from home I feel compelled to take the gun with me, I keep a belt slide handy for such an emergency. (no it wont fit the smith w/laser)

Im going to get me one of these rigs, and see what mods can be made to make it more suitable for my lifestyle.

You don’t want the gun on the chair. Trust me on this one. What if you were to be knocked out of your chair and the chair rolls away from you? Guess what… You’ve just lost your gun!

Interesting! And there are really intelligent comments that some of us can relate to. Different opinions from different experiences, one great way to learn. One thing, what will happen if you we’re not able to ride your chair that fast? or like Paul said, “What if you were to be knocked out of your chair and the chair rolls away from you?”… Something to ponder.

I’ll admit it’s good for some people that don’t have to get out of their chair to go places. But for guys like me where I’m getting out of my chair and into my car I’d have to take my pistol out of the holster in a public area while I take my chair apart and load it into my car. Then when I got back out reholster it and cover it in a public area. So yeah while it’s a good idea for some that don’t ever leave their chair from the time they leave their house till the time they got home it’s not a solution for others. I’ve been using my alien gear holster but and looking for other setups like cross draw or lately I’ve been looking at concealed vests