We all mourn the victims of hatred, malice and madness who have been shot in attacks on churches, temples and synagogues.  The wise do more than mourn.

My lovely bride called my attention to this important article.

And the always impressive Dr. John Lott points out how many Protestant churchds rely on armed members of their own congregations for security, here.

Discussion invited.

20 COMMENTS

  1. Being Catholic clergy there isn’t a real good way for me to carry concealed with the exception of maybe an ankle holster. There are some places I might put a defensive firearm, but none I am overly comfortable doing. I always breathe a sigh of relief when I look out into the pews and see our county sheriff in attendance.

    Attacks on houses of worship do happen and something to be concerned about. In my short time as an ordained I have had to deal with a satanist who decided to pay us a visit one Sunday. We have had a few “wayward” stumble in that needed to be dealt with. This world is getting crazier by the minute and we will see these types of attacks increase.

    I am former military and former law enforcement. My eyes are constantly scanning those in attendance with a focus on those I don’t know. I play out every scenario I can think of and how I would respond to an attack if one came. I don’t see it as an if but only a when.

    Houses of worship for every faith tradition are foolish if they don’t at least acknowledge the possibility of an attack and try to have some plan in place if one happens.

    • Deacon Bob-we must be long lost brothers, I am former LE and will be ordained (God willing) as a Catholic Deacon next year. I have had the same thoughts as you, where to carry? I’m thinking of pocket carry for my S&W 649 Bodyguard as my alb has a slit so I can get at that pocket. Side note: half of my class of 8 are retired cops, funny how many Deacons are retired from the job.

    • Deacon Bob & Det Matt, thank you both for your duties at church.
      In our small, local parish, I am both Lector and Sacristan.
      I find I am able to carry the S&W 442/642 well concealed in my trousers. I guess one might consider them roomy, dress Chinos. I do carry in both front pockets.
      I am retired LEO as well.
      God Bless, stay safe.

    • I was completely ignorant of clothing issues specific for a Deacon. I know Mas has discussed scrubs for medical staff and fellow students have chimed in with tips for that. I’ve also been looking at the Enigma Holster from Philster. I found ankle, belly band, fanny pack, and even pocket carry to be less than ideal once i tried them during physical therapy. Thanks for bringing this up for us to consider.

  2. Good information, but disheartening. “Hope and pray” is not a plan for dealing with an active shooter event. It requires coordination and intentionality to avoid having armed parishioners end up as more casualties of the shooter, friendly fire or death by cop.

    • We recently had a long class on active killers at the Texas Handgun Association conference. Ed Monk was the expert instructor, and had research to back up his information.

      Death by friendly fire is something you hear about, but he pointed out that it’s really simple to tell who is shooting at unarmed people, so he hasn’t seen a case.

      Death by cop is unlikely because the police aren’t going to show up until minutes after the threat is eliminated and the defenders are busy with first aid. In the one DBC case he cited, the defender had picked up and was holding the killer’s rifle. (Don’t do that.)

      Monk said it takes about five minutes for a call to get to the 911 dispatcher and officers to be sent, plus the time it takes the officers to arrive at the venue, prepare, and enter. As I remember, in the recent Catholic school shooting there were no delays, with officers rushing in immediately, and the time from first shot to downing the killer was 14 minutes.

  3. At our church, I’m a committee chairman and have had Safe Sanctuary training. We got a group together several years ago and discussed the situation. The problem is that getting a clear shot at an attacker would be challenging from just about any angle. We addressed it by getting five small fire extinguishers and mounting them under the pews where our guys habitually sit. We have practiced pulling an extinguisher and spraying it on a shooter, to distract him long enough for one of us to get into a better position to either shoot him, or conk him with our own extinguisher. A snort of that stuff to the face is going to slow down an attacker long enough for us to act. As always, the key is to have a plan.

    • Douglas Pratt,

      “The problem is that getting a clear shot at an attacker would be challenging from just about any angle.”

      Is it challenging because parishioners are in the way? I wonder if training the congregation to get down on the floor during a shooting would help the sheep dogs eliminate the threat.

  4. Over the last 20 years or so all the churches with which I have been involved were in one of two contiguous states, where the law “allowed” folks to bring their arms into churchhouses. Since I carried mine wherever I went, I also carried it there. Most times it was never even noticed, but the places where it was everyone was fine with it. The only places where there was “an issue” with the practice were ones with overbearing micromanaging “leadership”, which is not cnsistent with healthy church life anyway, so I’d have left even if no one had raised the “WHY do you HAVE to have a gunnnn.. don’t you rust the Lord?” nonsense.
    Yes, I DO trist Him, But just like David of old, who selected five smooth stones to put in his pouch when he went up against that big giant, his grust was in the Lord, NOT his sling, stones, or skill. I might die with that thing still strapped onto my hip. I might be the one to poke a hole in the evil perp starting to take out my bretheren. But I will NOT go in there and be another duck on the illpond if someone intent upon evil decides to open fire.

    Just like the best real deterrent to crime everywhere else is the armed.skilled memeber of the community, inside the walls of the churchhouse is no different.

    My current church home is medium sized, mixed bag of folks, and, as is my wont, I walked in there in the same “status” I am when I walk into anywhere else. No one noticed, or if they did said nothing. I did notice some “older guys” lingering just outside sme of the doors to the building. Didn;t take long to realise they are the “official” security team. Great guys… all with long histories deeply involved wth firearms. Iside one time I walked past one of them then sat down to eat with him. He casually asked “is that aHigh Power you’ve got there?” Yup. He had “made” me and was curious what I was carrying. He wholeheartedly approved of my preference. He had carried them years ago in the military.
    The best security is an armed population. Cheapest, as well.

    Two incidents come to mind to clearly demonstrate what works and what does not with respect to “church security”.
    West Freeway Baptist church, west of Dallas/Ft.Worth, and the Sutherland Springs baptist church shooting, down near Houston . Two very different “security policies” in place, two VERY different outcomes.

    • IIRC, in Sutherland Springs nobody was armed. I’m not sure on the church’s policy.

      The armed responder was a guy in a nearby building, unaffiliated with the church, who grabbed his AR-15 and shot the attacker (twice) from across the street.

      It does show how armed private citizens can respond much quicker than the “official” first responders, but if you’re trying to convince your church’s leadership of the need for armed parishioners on-site, there are better examples.

  5. I have been a Highway Patrol Officer for 8 years, In the Marines for 6 years,and a Border patrol man on the Mexican Border for many years. On the Mexican Border I knocked off many cartels and had to use my gun many times. The reason I say this is because I have seen many men who carried a gun but afraid to use them. What I’m saying is that a man with a gun to help a Church should have some training.

    • Richard Boehm,

      ” . . . I have seen many men who carried a gun but afraid to use them. ” It was found that during some wars, soldiers were intentionally firing over the heads of the enemy, because they wanted to look like they were doing something, but they really didn’t want to kill anyone.

      Also, I have a fear of what the legal system will do to me after a self-defense shooting. I should move to a “free” state, and I admit it is my fault for not doing that already.

      Look what the legal system of NYC is doing to Daniel Penny. Look what they did to Bernard Goetz. Curtis Sliwa has been arrested about 77 times. The legal system is often pro-criminal, and anti-victim. City cops allow criminals to shoplift and commit other crimes. I suspect if store clerks beat shoplifters, the cops would arrest the clerks.

      I curse the citizens of NYC for voting the way they do. Cities are for losers.

      • Regarding the legal system of the free states, it is not that straight forward. I live in the free state of Texas, but I have no illusions about getting a fair shake if, heaven forbid, I am ever forced to defend myself or my family.

        You are prosecuted by the county, not the state. There are dark blue counties in Texas, and I suspect in other free states as well. For example, Austin is located in Travis county. Travis county voted 72 percent for Biden.

        Google Daniel Perry.

  6. I am a member of one such security team. We train together, one of members is an instructor, from the Florida panhandle and an old friend of Mas. Local law enforcement is aware of us. We also have met with the entire congregation, discussed our plans and intentions, asked for their cooperation, “stay down, try to stay calm and don’t distract us”. We have a panic alarm in the sanctuary, demonstrated during the meeting, to announce an emergency. Two members have ‘fobs’ for activating the alarm. After the meeting we were ALL thanked individually by nearly every member of the congregation (no one has left us) for volunteering to protect the flock.

  7. Even when the police response is perfect, communication time and transit time guarantee an unacceptable level of friendly casualties. There is simply no substitute for having armed defenders in place if an attack happens. This is why I believe that sharp restriction in what can be designated a gun free zone is the most important issue for those of us who believe in self-defense.

  8. In contrast to Donald Trump’s movement to “Make America Great Again (MAGA)”, the policy of the American Left is to “Make America Little Again (MALA)”. During the 18th and 19th Centuries, America was just a little colonial country on the World Stage. America did not become a “World Power” until the 20th Century (arguably first under the Administration of President Theodore Roosevelt).

    Once America became a World Power, we acted (especially during the Cold War) to oppose the spread of Global Leftism/Marxism/Communism. Thus, we earned the hatred of the Global Left. Their counterstrike has been to continually undermine America with attacks on our domestic institutions. Their supreme stoke was to install their tool, Obama, as President. Obama pledged to “transform America” in a revolutionary movement. This was Code Language for “Make America Little Again (MALA)” which is the true goal, and operational policy, of the American/Global Left.

    By the way, this explains their undying hatred of Donald Trump. President Trump’s message of “Make America Great Again (MAGA)” is directly opposed to the revolutionary MALA policy of the Leftists. Thus, MAGA is counter-revolutionary and there is nothing that Leftists hate worse than someone being a counter-revolutionary. In their minds, it is the greatest crime that a person can commit. Thus, as the face of the counter revolutionary MAGA movement, here in America, Donald Trump is the Greatest Criminal in America from a left-wing perspective. They can’t charge him with being a counter-revolutionary since that is not (yet) a crime under the Federal Statutes. Thus, they scramble to manufacture other charges, against him, that might pass for crimes.

    So, what does all this have to do with attacks against religious institutions? Very simple. As part of the Left’s MALA strategy, they are working to undermine anything that is a positive pillar of support to America. Other pillars, such as our Constitutional form of Government, our Justice System, Law enforcement, border security, our education system, Journalism, our morality, and family structure, etc. have all been viciously attacked and undermined. Clearly, Religion and the Church is another pillar of support that must be attacked and undermined by MALA.

    The leftists attack religion with their narcissistic and humanistic ideology of self-worship. They attack religion with their policies such as keeping prayer and religion out of schools and the use of the Covid-19 panic to shut down houses of worship. They also encourage actual physical actions against religious institutions in the forms of vandalism, arson, and mass-murder attacks. While the Left continues to suppress the manifesto of the Nashville School Shooter, there is no doubt that she was motivated by extreme left-wing ideology.

    So, I think that Deacon Bob is correct when he says, above, that these attacks on religious institutions are only going to grow worse. If the American Left is allowed to continue to expand their MALA Movement, then undermining religion is going to be an integral component of it.

    The Left firmly believes in the motto espoused by the Littlefinger Character in Game of Thrones. They also believe that “Chaos is a Ladder”. As part of MALA, they are sowing chaos across America with both hands. They care not for the damage that this chaos causes to the American People. To achieve MALA, they are perfectly happy to “Burn America to the Ground” if that means that they can then “Rule over the Ashes”.

    An America that is burnt down to the ground is the ultimate achievement of MALA. It means an America that will no longer be able to oppose the plans of the Global Left and the ChiComs.

    So, as a practical matter, efforts must be made to improve security at religious institutions since the threat is ongoing. However, the means selected should be effective ones. I read the linked articles and note that, of the seven security measures listed, some are much more effective than others.

    Indeed, one so-called “Security Measure”, on the list, is counterproductive. This is the “No firearms policy for the building” measure. Are they serious? Turning a House of Worship into a “Gun Free Zone” is among the worst ideas ever put forward. It will increase the risk of a mass-murder event rather than decrease it.

    The only way this policy should ever be implemented would be if it is combined with metal detectors at all entrances and with uniformed and armed security guards stationed in the building. With such a level of full security, a disarmament policy can be tolerated. Otherwise, it is a dangerous policy that only provides an appearance of protection without providing any substance.

    I am reminded of the old Wendy’s Commercial where the little old lady asks, “Where’s the Beef?”. There is no beef in a “Gun Free Zone” Policy. It is nothing but a dangerous illusion of security in Today’s World. That is why “Gun Free Zones” are so supported by the American Left. It gives the false appearance of action when, in fact, it offers no impediment to MALA at all. Thus, it is one security policy that the leftists can wholeheartedly endorse!

    • Great essay, TN_MAN! Part of the resentment of the Left towards Donald Trump appears to me to be the deep realization that Donald Trump is more intelligent than the leftists are in general. That is an often enigmatic source of envy that breeds resentment from the ruthless left. It also explains why leftist politicians seem to count heavily on exploiting gullibility, good nature, and peoples’ hard work, rather than offering more intelligent solutions. They don’t want to make Trump look smart, at all costs! Hopefully religious institutions are looking at what is actually working to successfully prevent violence, such as the methods developed lately in Ohio.

      • Strategic Steve,

        Also, Donald Trump used to be a Leftist, or at least a Democrat, with New York values. So, the Left would view him as a traitor.

  10. Sounds like these churches are starting to make some practical sense. I have some experience with police agencies in schools and it rarely ever looks good. Our local high school is actually forming its own PD, and we have another on the other side of our county which is thoroughly unimpressive, none of them can field strip their handguns and they were loading their ar pistols with freaking green tips. I think too much state regulation and municipal liabilities get are a problem. These churches relying on armed parishioners probably have the best chance. I would recommend organizing a quarterly joint training day with live fire, classroom, and force on force, even paintball games for everyone involved. Would cost some money but I’d make it a church field trip.

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