Looking through the relatively thin pickings of meaningful new gun designs in this year’s crop, I noticed that one I mentioned here, the Glock 42, a seven-shot .380 pistol, got a ton of comment on the internet. Much of that commentary was on the theme of “if I’m going to carry a gun that size, I’d want it in full power 9mm Parabellum, not a wussy .380 a/k/a 9mm Short.”
Let me make it clear: I’m not a .380 fan. In 40-plus years of studying gunfights – not just reading books, but personally debriefing survivors and going over autopsy reports – I’ve come to consider the .380 marginal if not sub-marginal as a defensive weapon. I’ve just seen too many cases of the bad guy sucking up bullet after .380 bullet in vital zones and still coming. But, I’ve also seen cases like the recent controversial Tampa shooting, in which a senior citizen dropped the man he shot with a single .380 to the chest. (I’ve seen one-shot stops with well-placed .22 bullets, too, but I don’t recommend a .22 for self-defense, either.)
If you go on the gun forums, you’ll find that a recurrent theme is “how much is enough to use for self-defense, and how much is too much?” And you’ll discover that there’s some ego investment in those discussions.
The meme seems to be, “If you carry more (more powerful ammo, more cartridges, even more guns) than I do, you’re paranoid. And if you carry less than I do, you’re a pathetic sheeple.”
Oh, good Lord…
First, if you’re carrying a seven-shot .380, you are better prepared to defend yourself against a homicidal armed criminal than a high 90th percentile of the population, who are carrying nothing at all which could realistically stop such an attack.
But, second, if that attack actually comes, you might wish you had something a little more than than a .380. The saying is: “You’ll never meet a gunfight survivor who says he wishes he’d had fewer, less powerful rounds.”
Having shot the new Glock 42 with more .380 rounds than most folks outside the Glock factory, I was impressed with its ease of operation, extremely mild “kick,” and accurate delivery of rapid fire. There are a helluva lot of people – petite females, the elderly, the disabled – who will shoot faster and straighter with this gun than with something more powerful. There, I think, is its market niche…wait a year or two, and see, but I expect it to become a best-seller.
Will I carry one? Probably not. Whenever a gun magazine asks me to test a .380, I feel like Ralph Nader test-driving a Corvair for Motor Trend. But as someone who trains others to shoot, I am going to see about buying my test sample to keep it on hand so students who don’t think or function as I do, can try it.
As I write this, I’m wearing a different Glock pistol. It’s much more powerful than a .380, and holds far more cartridges than the slim little G42, and I have a spare “high capacity” magazine on the opposite hip. That works for me, but I have to accept that some other people need something different to fit their abilities, their lifestyles, their dress codes.
God save us from BS memes. A center hit with a .380 beats a miss or even a peripheral hit with a .44 Magnum.
Something is better than nothing.
Discussion invited.
Firing one handed, I found recoil quite controllable with the new little Glock .380.
Note the best four of these 5 shots from benchrest at 25 yards. The one outlier may have been unnoticed human error. Sights have since been drifted for center hits. This is unusually good accuracy for pistols in this class.
I can’t talk a lot; I shoot (and when possible, carry) a 9mm when I “am big enough” to carry a .40 or a .45. However, I have very mild Carpal Tunnel in both wrists ever since I used TVI910p terminals in college (and who cares about ergonomics when they’re 18 and stupid). 40s and 45s make me sore at best, and normally hurt. If I don’t enjoy shooting a gun, then I won’t shoot it enough to get muscle memory, and without that, a SHTF event can get bad fast. OTOH, I am so comfortable with my 92FS that I “rack, clear, and tap the back” when the gun won’t shoot in my dreams… 🙂
The smaller 9mm and .40 pistols are really pushing the .380 out of the “small gun” niche, but options are options. Shooters who don’t like or can’t handle a 9mm small gun should look at .380. I would even like to see a lot of the current .380 pistols in .32 ACP as well, for people who need that slightly lower kick.
+10. To each their own. It’s tiresome to hear all those rugged individualist insist that everyone do it just like them.
An interesting part of the G-42 design is the elimination of the much despised (by me) finger serrations on the front strap. There’s hope for the 5th Gens. Could there be enough room in the grip to accommodate a 9×19?
Plans to review the R-51?
Spot on commentary you correctly understand the market for the G42. Groups of budding women shooters that I follow have had nothing but praise for the G42 compared to the TCP LCP LCR class firearm they currently carry. These are women who want to shoot 50 and 100 round training sessions. The one complaint I have seen them post is the G42 is a little large for a bra mounted Flashbang holster. However many seem willing to trade a bit of carry comfort for the improved sights and trigger of the G42. So many of the I’m disappointed it’s not a single stack 9mm nay sayers seem to have forgotten new women shooters and those with compromised hand strength, ie arthritis sufferers, the elderly, etc. I am sure more than a few left handed and left eye dominate shooters will appreciate the ability to swap sides the Gen4 magazine release affords.
Thank you, Mas!
I have been trying to drive this very same point home ever since the G42 was announced, but wants to listen to little ol’ me.
I am a NRA Basic Pistol instructor, and MANY of the female students I meet come in believing that they want the smallest gun possible because it should (in their mind) have the lightest kick. A few test shots with an XD(s) and some pocket 9s usually fixes that.
So, yes, they could totally get a 9mm in a same (or even smaller) package as the G42, but if they can’t (or won’t) practice with it because of the kick, then how is that an improvement? I really see this as the subcompact-size gun for shooters who need less recoil. They COULD go to an even smaller .380 gun, sure, but then we’re more-recoil less-grip mouse-gun territory again. This gives them physically small gun with a controllable (for them) kick. As you say, even being a .380, it’s a better option than not having anything.
Well, Uncle Mas, as part of your test team for the G42 I will concur with all that you said. I am not a big fan of the .380 either, but it is certainly a better choice than anything smaller (.22, .25, .32) and we still see folks come into the store looking for guns that have little recoil and are as small as possible. The reasons for this we all know very well, thus the .380 has been revived from near extinction in recent years. Some folks will still gravitate to the smaller .380 guns in the sub $350 price range, but this Glock will be an excellent VALUE for those who carry a .380. As noted, it is very “shootable” with very mild recoil, enough of a grip to get a firm hold, decent sights, surprising accuracy and excellent reliability. For someone who is comfortable with a .380, I think this gun just surged to the top of the list. That list, by the way, should include the Kahr PM .380 (and the CM .380 when it becomes available), and the S&W, which is now announced as available in an M&P version. As you know, I’m a big fan of choices and right now the .380 choices are reaching new heights. Will I carry one? Not likely, but I might want to borrow yours occasionally. 🙂
Let’s see, the Glock 42 is small, light, controllable, accurate, reliable… I think it will be a big success. Not everyone reads Internet forums. Some who do fail to take them with the seriousness some posters there seem to expect…
I have two friends (both male) that use different firearms with different calibers, and they both are equally proficient in their use. One friend uses a GP100 using .357 mag, the other friend uses a SA M1911A1 in .45 ACP. They both can control the recoil of their respective firearms with accuracy downrange. I also had a female shipmate that shot Expert using a Colt M1911A1 in .45 ACP, and she must have weighed 105 lbs soaking wet! At the end of the day, if you can shoot a firearm accurately when the time comes, a well-placed hit (or hits) that stops the attacker is proof enough that the caliber you are using is sufficient! (P.S. all three carry more than one gun, just in case)
Not something…ANYTHING is better than nothing…Jack
Mas’
Question: To what extent does the difference in available defence ammo have in modifying your view on the caliber? I can’t question your statements historically but just wonder if the newer ammo has made a significant difference.
Thx
Charlie
Rather than reviving these old controversial calibers, I wish more manufacturers would take a chance on modern ones.
For instance, it would be interesting to see more affordable pistols available in the 5.7×28 or the 4.6×30.
Loaded for pistols, perhaps, those could strike the same balance for people, which they seek in the 380.
As you know, they have plenty of zing, and very easy to shoot.
Mas,
Excellent summation! I started concealed carry with a Browning BDA in .380 because it belonged to my Dad. It is a sweet pistol which my oldest daughter has now but even she has moved on to a .40 cal. After carrying the BDA for about a year I reverted to my US Marine training (early 60’s) and now carry either a Kimber Ultra CDP, a Commander size 1911 in .45 cal. or a Glock 23. I guess I’m old school but the 1911 just feels right in my hand and I prefer them to the Glock for no other reason than I have more confidence in my ability to shoot them. That said a .380, with modern ammo, is far superior to hands, a knife or a ball bat.
My .380 PPK/S has a pretty good kick compared to much higher calibers I shoot. A tame .380 would be good but, as you noted, every time I’ve carried the .380 and felt that twinge of condition yellow, I wish I’d had a bigger gun.
WRT “Something” being better than “Nothing”, just ask them! They are not home invaders, just invisible freeloaders who live in every single home also inhabited by “Nobody”, “Somebody” and “Who.” My beloved wife of three decades talks constantly about these seven residents (for life) of our home: “Something was not done as I expected.” “Nothing gets done around here unless I do it.” “Nobody ever listens to me.” “Somebody left dirty dishes in the sink.” “Who failed to vacuum the living room rug?”
WRT the 380 ACP vs. Field Artillery 240mm Howitzer (Towed) effectiveness discussion, my late father was XO of the 266 FA Bn during the infamous Battle of the Bulge where he discovered that the 240 was quite difficult to conceal and control. I carry a concealable, rugged, simple, well designed and well built Polish PA-64 pistol chambered for the 9 x 18 Makarov cartridge. Yes, I carry one extra loaded magazine. (No, not Newsweek or Time.)
If Somebody attacks me to kill me and Nobody is around and my doing Nothing will result in my death, I will indeed plan to have Something in my hand that will cause the startled, falling down Somebody who attacked me to ask this rhetorical question, “Who just shot me seven times using a cartridge just one tiny step up in power above a 380 ACP, because I am no FAN at all of the 380 ACP. I was truly hoping to get stopped and dropped by a 230 Grain FMJ bullet …” Kudos to Glock for deciding to design, market and sell a 380 ACP pistol. Well done. Bien hecho. Bien fait. Gut macht. Somebody has promised me that I will get Something made by Glock on Christmas Day 2014. Who joins me in betting that it will be a Glock baseball cap?
As is always stated when folks ask me what the best gun to carry… The one you WILL carry. If it is too big or heavy or bothers you with recoil, it will remain at home or in the car. If a 380 is comfortable for you, then carry it. It is WAY better than the 44 mag you left at home.
As Mr. Colion Noir said “the .45 doesn’t just kill the body, it kills the soul”. That said, there is a lot of interest in quality .380’s so I’m not surprised to see a Glock .380. My wife will probably be interested in one since she has a lot of cartilage damage in her hands.
While I have no actual experience to run with on this I tend to follow the advice of those who have. Colonel Cooper didn’t trust anything less then the venerable 1911 in .45 ACP and felt the 9mm was marginal at best. I carry an LC9 with laser, understanding that if the need arose, I will need to do my part well. I will also carry either a Browning Hi Power in 9mm and sometimes a 1911 commander in .45. A lot depends on where I am expecting to be and current climatic conditions for conceal ability concerns. The .380 is tempting but so far I have resisted the temptation and urgings of my wife, also a CCW holder.
I think it’s of critical importance that my trouser does not go South from the weight of my shootin’ iron, that’s why I no longer carry my 1911 .45.
Enter my SIG 232. I carry it using a Bianchi IWB.
The 232 is not match grade of course but it does a fine job of busting Armadillos. I’m not interested in what the Keyboard Commandos say about which gun is the only gun to carry ’cause if they have a pet Armadillo they’d better keep it outta my yard. My SIG232 .380 is sufficient for my needs to now. If the day comes when I rely on my .380 to keep me alive lets hope I can keep a steady hand and clear eyes putting my shots in the 10 ring sooner than the opposition.
.
I carry a Colt Mustang .380 when hiking. I also carry a pack that weighs about 30 lbs with a full water bag in it. The major reason I carry the Mustang is because of weight, that and I don’t have a lot of money to spend getting a newer pistol. It’s fairly light, small so it fits in my chest bag that straps across my front (very accessible) and I have it. That’s it in a nut shell.
Slightly different from the Sig P226 I carry when I’m not in the hills.
Rich
Mas,
Thank you for this mini-commentary on self defense cartridges. One of the reasons I follow this blog is your common sense, no nonsense approach to these normally volatile discussions.
Some blogs I’ve run across have postings that cause me to visualize some concealed carry folks walking around trying to conceal more equipment than the average combat soldier in a war zone carries.
Like most of your followers, I try to be prepared. When I go into the woods ( I live in bear country), I usually carry my medium-frame .44 mag. Why? Because it’s the most comfortable choice for me, personally, to make sure I’m armed and have a reasonable chance of surviving a confrontation. If I knew for a fact that I was going to have a bear encounter, I would be much better armed. Conceal-ability is not a concern. I’m not looking to confront a bear, I only want the means to protect myself if a bear decides to harm me. I have made this a practice for several years without ever having a bear confrontation, but I consider myself reasonably prepared for that possibility.
Same applies to my concealed carry regimen. I carry the most comfortable handgun (for me) to carry and easily conceal in a caliber capable of ending a fight if I do my part. Again, I’m not looking for a confrontation, just want a chance of surviving if someone chooses me. This only happens if I always carry. I always carry because my weapon never causes me discomfort or problems concealing.
Unless everywhere one goes outside their home a 4x tropical print shirt or oversize tactical vest is acceptable attire, or they actually hope someone will notice the bulge of that large frame pistol/revolver, a smaller, lighter weapon makes sense. In my case that’s a .38 special, but from a short barrel a .380 is not that much weaker. I would not reject it out of hand, but since my former department cuts off at .38 spec on the low end, I must comply for h.r.218.
The Glock 42 sounds like a viable option, just not an option for me.
My 65 year old mother with feeble hands that can barely pull the slide back shoots and caries a Bersa 380. She hits the black of the target at 21 feet.
You are exactly on the mark here with the low recoil, rapid firing, ease of handling and quicker follow up shots.
Possibly Glock wanted to compete with the compact smaller frame guns such as the LCP’s which are softer to shoot in these smaller guns in .380’s yet still good enough for self protection with modern day ammunition.
Leave it to a real man to get it right. “Shoot what you can shoot” should be the mantra of instructors. We can all do without the chest thumping and arm bumps. Thanks again Mas. Jw
C. Reeves, who used to be a colleague of mine, just killed a man in a movie theater. He used a .380 to fire one shot and the projectile went through the wife’s hand and into the chest of the man. No matter what else you may think about this event, it certainly seems to bear out the theory of Mr. Ayoob. I agree with that theory, a well placed shot in any caliber is better than a miss with a .44 magnum. I carry a Glock 26 myself, but I am comfortable with my wife carrying a Ruger LCP .380.
Hooray.
That being said, Mas, I think you are preaching to the choir. Any good instructor, ( or anyone else who is thinking) should be student-centric enough to help them find a gun that the student can operate successfully and confidently, and also be willing to carry it. I carry various flavors of 1911 most of the time- that does not mean that a 1911 is right for everyone. Lots of the small .380’s kick a fair amount, but the new Glock, by all accounts does not have as much perceived recoil. I would point out that the SiG 238 and the Colt Government .380 and its offspring are very pleasant guns to shoot, as well, due to the Browning lock-breech design. In spite of that, of course, many folks shy away from “cocked and locked”- the Glock is an answer.
I suspect the Glock 42 will be very successful; it may turn out to be just the ticket for those looking for DAO, striker fired, low recoil sidearm.
Regards
GKT
If reduced recoil is an important consideration, I can’t help asking if the G42 is any easier to shoot than a slightly larger steel pistol in 9 mm such as a Kahr K9 or T9.
Has Ruger every released sales figures for their LC9 and LC380? Or Taurus for their 138B and 111B? I thought .380 was a very popular caliber, 9mm is more powerful and the most common round around. Geoff Who is a curious fellow.
Charlie, I’m not sure that ammo advances are all that great in .380 caliber. It’s a small cartridge that can only generate so much power. In even the best hollow points, there’s either enough power to expand a hollow point but not enough to drive it deep, or enough to drive a non-expanding bullet deep, but not both. This is why so many of us are leery of the caliber.
Ran across this site awhile back that might interest those considering small “pocket guns”. Good info on performance of over the counter ammo choices.http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/p/ammo-tests.html
Here is an interesting video… http://gunmartblog.com/2014/01/07/380-enough-gun/
About an inch of penetration from a .380 when it hit a bone.
Hello Mas – my wife is in the process of moving from a “I’m not interested in guns and shooting” to “I would like to learn how to shoot and carry.” The G42 appears to me to be a great choice for her to start her journey and build confidence. The object is not for her to be macho or tough or even cool – just competent with a fire arm in a petite hand. Your comments are on point. I am particularly happy with the pseudo-beavertail on the G42 which ought to eliminate the kind of slide bite that is common with the PPK, LCP, and even the Sig P232.
QUESTION: Would you allow use of this gun in a MAG-20 or 40 class?
Stay safe,
Sam
I agree that something is better than nothing but the difference in size and weight between a comparable 9mm and a .380 is negligible.
As to the whole debate, it reminds me of a line from a comedian I heard a long time back (paraphrased): “Anyone driving slower than you is a moron and anyone driving faster than you is an asshole.”
Absolutely, Sam. We have a lot of folks with .380s go through the class. We encourage students to “shoot what they carry.”
Rule #1 of a gunfight: bring a gun
I carry a Ruger LCP .380 in an ankle holster. I’m fully aware of the disadvantages of the caliber and the holster, but it’s *always* there; the holster goes on when I put my shoes on in the morning, and comes off when I pull my shoes in the evening.
Requirements of my work and dress code pretty much eliminate any kind of IWB/OWB or carrying a larger gun in my pocket.
Sure, I’d like to carry one of my .45s all the time, but sometimes you have to play the hand you’re dealt. So, depending on dress requirement limitations, I occasionally can carry a larger gun, but not all the time.
Finally glad to hear an expert that is less than enamored with the .380 for all conditions of self-defense – I never liked that round, and never considered it since I go for maximum effect available.
But, my BUG behind a G30sf is a S&W 638 snub-nose.
Don’t know about the 380, but when I start questioning that Speer GD short-barrel 38 special round, I take it out back to my range and launch a few. And after 20-30 rounds I find myself rubbing my wrist with satisfaction.
I will always believe a couple of .45+P hitting anywhere beats the best COM-placed .380, but also keep in mind that the .38 round has saved a lot of cops, and brought down a lot of bad guys over the decades.
My wife carries a .380 LCP. She is the petite female with no place to hide anything larger and any bigger caliber turns her off from training (to hard to handle). She has brandished it twice and fortunatly that was all it took.
Joe,
Watched, the videos (plural). I saw test shots using 3 different .380 factory loadings. All were one shot, no chronograph, through winter coat, t-shirt, rib bone, into ballistic gelatin.
The first .380 round performed very poorly with the one inch penetration you cited. The next two brands performed much better, with what appeared to be 7-9 inches penetration after passing through outer clothing and the rib bone.
Since the producer of the video didn’t follow up with a re-test of the first round, could it possibly have been a squib load from the factory? Without a chronograph reading we won’t know for certain.
Not advocating for the .380, but folks need all info, not just that info that bolsters their own bias’s.
The last video in the series was using the .45 acp and did show the wisdom of carrying a larger, more powerful weapon, but the discussion is about when you can’t.
No disrespect intended.
The only .380 I own is a Sig P250 Compact. With it’s 3.9″ barrel and 15 round mag I feel it’s my best bet for a Townhouse defense gun. I am very aware of the danger of over-penetration in my narrow confines. With Hornady Critical Defense rounds, I think the gun is adequate for the job.
To all the 380 haters out there that I have run up on I tell them you stand 10 feet away and let me dump a mag into the high center of your chest and if you survive I will take your advise into consideration. I don’t carry a 380 but if it was the only gun I had I would. And there are plenty of people in the grave yard they will tell you a 22lr can kill if they could. There is going to be arguing over caliber choose until we are using ray guns that we can set on stun or kill.
Can’t throw any stones at those carrying .380 because I often carry .38 Special Snubbies, albeit using a modern variant of the Treasury Load, Corbon Barnes Copper DPX Bullet in a 110 HP +P package. Also carry, two speedloaders with the old FBI load (158 gr. SWC LHP at +p) for reloading. Only a bit more power there.
I have carried a .380 PPK (pre 1968 GCA original) but used the untested Corbon Powerball ammo for feeding purposes as hollowpoints turned it into a jammatic.
I have other options including 9mm, .357, and .45, but my guns in those calibers are heavy, harder to conceal, and/or require more range time that I do not have the time nor wallet for right now. Probably end up with something like the Ruger LCP in 9mm or the Beretta Nano as a compromise light wt. gun. in the near future.
The more easy-to-shoot and carry options, the easier to convince people to carry.
The more people carrying, the greater the herd immunity, if you will, from criminals we will all benefit from.
So we can argue about caliber on an individual level but I don’t think anyone would be opposed to 10s of millions of people carrying even if, for some reason, they were only willing to carry .22 short or .25 ACP as, even with those puny guns, that would be quite the deterrent.
This is why the minimum caliber requirements for CCW extant in certain jurisdictions is so wrong-headed. It literally eliminate the only options for a certain portion of the population. Which means fewer people carrying and thus a greater ability for criminals to be successful.
Mas, this is a little bit off the topic here but, I would like your opinion on folks who constantly change their carry gun. I know folks that will carry a 1911 on Mionday, a PPK on Tuesday, a S&W 60 revolver on Wednesday, a Glock 19 on Thursday, a P-08 Luger on Friday, etc. While I have lots of choices I stick with one gun as my carry gun and the others are “fun-guns.” My reasoning is, in time of crisis (with subsequent adrenaline pump) it is too easy to forget what gun you are pulling from which (I forget to mention they switch from IWB to SOB to crossdraw, etc., as well) holster. If you have to consciously think about how to release the safety (if there IS one) you will have a big problem. In fact, I teach people who have guns with safeties that they should practice (in dry fire, too) by drawing and releasing the safty EVERY time so that part becomes automatic, as well.
Mas, what are your feelings on this?
Captain Bob, as one who fits the profile you describe, I agree that the ideal is same platform all the time to better hone reactive skill. For some, the changes are “just because.” For some, it might be changing wardrobes from business suit on weekdays to casual garb on weekends that allows more concealment leeway. In my case, part of it is constantly testing different guns (which includes testing for how they carry in most cases) and staying familiar with the different guns students expect me to teach them to use more effectively.
Same platform certainly does make sense, as you say.
As far as I am concerned now-adays, any weapon (Even a Knife, or Ice Pick), is far better than no weapon at all.
When I was younger, I carried and shot the .44 Mag., both SA, and S@W M27, and any other hi-powered Mag. cal. rifle, and pistol I could lay hands on.
Now, approaching 80th year on planet earth, with several phyical limitations, I have rethought my approach as to what weapons I can, and therefoe, should use.
My current “Oh Shit” carry is a .44 Spl. (for which I do still handload, contrary to Mas’ advise, as in; “You have to alive, to be tried my twelve”, which is still preferable to being “Carried by Six.) Derringer, with about 3 reloads, if reloading a “break type” two shot, can ever be called fast reloading at all?
I don’t practice with it, since I only intend to use it, under extreme duress, and at point blank ranges (If I can’t find a way to stuff it into the guy’s mouth, or ear, (etc.) before firing it.
Hi Mas,
Do you think we might see people migrate back towards subcompacts after this micro fad? I recently went back to my P239 after trying for a year to get a P290 to work for me. No matter the holster, the P290 found a way to poke me (I think the barrel length is actually too short). Despite being larger and heavier, the P239 carries more comfortably, handles better, and hides just as well (usually prefer a belly band).
I guess what I’m indirectly getting at is that this G42 seems like it’s large enough to handle well but be small and light enough to comfortably carry, and in a caliber that the average carrier can comfortably handle.
Glock seems to have the same problem as Apple: every new product is criticized for a number of reasons and analysts/bloggers proclaim it to be the end of Glock/Apple. Then, Glock/Apple sets a new sales record. The price of success?
Every bad guy that Mr. Bond shot with his Walther PPK in .32 ACP has dropped instantly (except Jaws), so if that’s good enough for him, a .380 pistol is certainly acceptable to me.
Besides, as everyone knows, only less endowed men carry big guns.
I know a retired County Sheriff in the Portland OR area who swears on his .380 Ruger LCP as “being better than nothing” and he is able to easily conceal it without people knowing.. with a CHL..
But I prefer to carry my XDs or Glock 30S or Kahr CW45 with 45 ACP..and not one yet has noticed that i carry it concealed either.. I feel that a 9mm or higher is the way to go..
I’d bet that that we’ll being seeing a 9mm version in the not too distant future. I’m no fan of pocket pistols but they have their place when nothing else will do. I chose a SIG P290RS simply because it was a 9mm and not a .380. But, it was probably a smart marketing and sales move on Glock’s part to release a .380 first.
@Steve: You said “…..every time I’ve carried the .380 and felt that twinge of condition yellow, I wish I’d had a bigger gun.”
Whenever you leave home, and especially so if you are armed, you should consistently be in at least condition YELLOW.
Condition WHITE is being totally oblivious about who and what is around you. Basically going through the day as if you were sleep walking. This is generally how most of the population functions.
Condition YELLOW is being aware of your surroundings, and any people in the area. In condition YELLOW, one is constantly alert for danger signs. Condition YELLOW describes a state of general, albeit relaxed, alertness. You can stay in condition YELLOW your entire waking day and not wear your self out.
As an aside, people who are anti firearms in general, and anti concealed carry specifically, would probably consider condition YELLOW as paranoia.
Condition ORANGE describes a situation of specific alertness focused on a definite source of potential danger. If you have gone into ORANGE, and wish you had a bigger gun, then you really need to think long and hard about what you carry. You need total confidence in your weapon choice. This isn’t the time for 2nd guessing.
Depending on the instructor, the next higher threat levels are either just BLACK or RED, then BLACK.
BLACK is the justifiable application of lethal force.
I currently carry a S&W Sigma .380 loaded with Hornady Critical Defense. As soon as I can get enough rounds through it to be comfortable, I will switch to a Sig P938 9mm (with laser sight) but haven’t decided on what rounds yet.
@BgDnTX – A year in Nam taught me that a .45 that hits anywhere is not effective against a determined attacker. In fact, a .223 that hits anywhere often did not stop the charging VC. Those who are stopped with a .45 ‘anywhere’ will probably stop when hit with anything. My personal experience is that most people will stop when shot with anything. Mas tends to interview LEO who face much different opposition than a civilian does. We are not going to keep pursuing a bad guy or lock him up in jail. The kind of bad guys civilians face are often those looking for an easy score and do not want to hang around to engage in a gun fight when opposed.
Hi Mas,
A few years ago I found a chart on the ‘net showing lethality in percentage by caliber.
The researchers studied fatal shootings with only hits in body areas generally accepted as fatal wound zones being included.
They discarded hits in extremities which led to death through secondary but shooting related causes such as bleed out or infections.
Of course the .357 Mag and above were seriously fatal but smaller caliber/lighter loads were closely grouped with velocity and projectile type appearing to be a factor separating calibers lethality.
I cannot find that chart, do you have a URL for it or one similar?