One of the rare stars who’ve shot a perfect score on the legendary Rogers test is Gabe White, the only one to have done so from concealment. He used a Glock 34 9mm with an inside the waistband holster in the appendix position. He told Glock Annual, “The Test itself is a real marathon—125 possible points on moving, disappearing plates, with four freestyle draws, eight strong-hand-only draws, two freestyle reloads, one strong-hand-only reload and two support-hand-only reloads. By my count there are at least 142 chances to screw up.”
In five days, it felt like I screwed up most of those 142 possibilities at one time or another. Having been shooting for very long time, my biggest problem was wrapping my head around Rogers’ techniques and getting away from the ones I’ve used so long myself. It seemed counter-intuitive when Bill said, “Pin the trigger back after you hit your target, and keep the sights right there, and don’t move the pistol until the next target pops up.” But it works. Before I figured that out, I blew more than one target that popped up when I was scanning elsewhere and had to double back with the sweeping gun, and it had disappeared before I got there. Remember, exposure time on Rogers targets is as little as half a second.
My biggest problem was following instructions. I’d run a few stages of the test perfect, a few more pretty good, and then completely blow one. Most often, I’d shoot out of sequence. Rogers demands “near to far” for tactical reasons, and I tended to shoot the one nearest to the sights on multiple targets; even if all subsequent shots were hits, they were invalidated for score by the procedural penalty. I finally managed to do what I tell my own students: turn off the auto pilot we all seek, and go to manual override. Conscious competence instead of unconscious competence. Think about what you’re doing, if only for an instant. When I managed to do that nine demanding stages in a row, I passed the Advanced score.
In my first blog entry in this particular series, , I wrote, “If you aren’t good at taking orders, you probably won’t be good at giving them…” Good Lord, little did I know when I wrote those words that I would live the lesson at Rogers’.
There were numerous stages where we had to reload one-hand-only with either hand. Rogers teaches doing that with the pistol in a “V-block” between thighs and knees. For decades I’ve used and taught a different technique for that, and more than once found myself starting to do my own method, catching myself, and then having to switch to Bill’s. That “oops, check, back, start over” ate up enough time that I’d lose three to five of those briefly-exposed targets by the time I got the gun back up. (Bill told me later, “If you’d asked, I would have let you used your own technique, so long as it’s safe.” My fault for not asking, but I was there to ingrain his stuff, not mine, and it all reinforced a valuable lesson for me.)
A tip of the hat to Bill Rogers and his wonderful staff: Major Adam Smith, Sergeant Kyle Armstrong, and Billy Lumpkin, late of DEVGRU. They all did a wonderful job.
One more Rogers instructor deserves notice. I hadn’t seen Ronnie Dodd since he took the Advanced OfficerSurvival course from Ray Chapman and I at Chapman Academy in Columbia, Missouri thirty years ago. He went on to an honorable retirement, during which he taught armed concealed carriers in Tennessee how to stay alive on their own. Ronnie was visiting after prevailing over a bout of throat cancer that would have put most people under. He kicked its ass – living proof of the survival attitude that he, and the other instructors Bill Rogers surrounds himself with, share with their students.
I haven’t taken their Basic class, though it gets rave reviews, but I can tell you from a week of intense personal experience that I give five stars and big thumbs up to the Intermediate/Advanced program at Rogers Shooting School.
Well written, Mas, It takes a big man to admit that he’s not perfect. When it comes to shooting on auto-pilot; when I shot that IDPA match with you and Gail, on 2 different stages I consistently double tapped instead of boarding-house rules. I still have a problem when shooting GSSF major-sub, where I tend to still double tap and then run out of ammo before finishing the string. Usually they let me reshoot, but I still feel like a numbskull.
Hi Massad! Do you have any recommendations for a Glock 19 sights? I recently got a Glock 19 and I am told that updating the sights would be a help to me. Any recommendations?
Great update on the Rogers Course!
Kare
Mas, thanks so much for the kind words!
Nice article – the Rogers program is a quite difficult indeed. Congratulations on shooting Advanced!
Gabe
Mas, what caliber options were allowed, and what would you consider the minimal/maximal effective ones, at Rogers Shooting School? I am wondering especially if a blow-back action in a caliber less than 9mm would give significant accuracy or speed advantages. Wondering also what pistols the “Perfect” shooters have used.
That does sound like some kind of special school! You can bet that Doc Holliday, Wild Bill Hickok, Calamity Jane, and Annie Oakley would have been on the list of students if the option had been available back in their day. You made a good showing, especially for an old dog learning new tricks. We’re glad you’re not an outlaw. The jury may still be out on Holliday.
Two-gun Steve: Rogers recommends 9mm to prevent recoil fatigue in the course of thousands of shots fired. If I recall correctly, Gabe White aced it with a Glock 34, Rob Leatham with a Springfield Armory XD or XDM, and Bill Rogers has done it with both the Glock 17 and the Smith & Wesson M&P9.
Gabe, happy to have you here, please don’t be a stranger.
Karen, we’ve had great luck with Heinie Straight-8, Hilton Yam 10-8 Performance, Ameri-Glo, and Scott Warren Tactical sights on our Glocks. I’ve seen some awfully good shooting done with Glock’s own night sights, which you can get installed dirt cheap at any GSSF match you’re willing to travel to (gssfonline.com will get you the match schedule, and you don’t need to compete). For those with fading eyesight, I’ve found nothing better than the Advantage Tactical sights.
Mas – congratulations, Sir! Your countless awards speak for themselves, but we both know that the Rogers Advanced is the crème de la crème of shooting. I must admit I was a bit surprised to learn you hadn’t already done that – you have me spoiled!
I read Karen’s question and thought this may be a time for a question I have for you, Mas. I bought a Sig P320C, chambered in .45 ACP and have been carrying it with a full mag + ‘one in the hole.’ I have always carried with one less than capacity in my other guns prior to this. I’m worried about the springs involved. I must say the Sig doesn’t exhibit any strain when I do this (unlike some other imported pistols). I even called Sig Sauer and got their “official” answer (“it’s OK to do that, but remember, when you carry with a round chambered, YOU are the safety”). What say you, Mas?
Don-Pa: I’d carry your particular gun all the way up. There are some pistols whose magazines are maxed out at full capacity, don’t have any “flex” left in the cartridge stack, and may not seat the magazines fully without a hard slam when you reload with the slide forward. For those, I carry one round down from capacity in the spares, but since there is ample time to load the gun in a condition of calmness before you need it, I put a completely full one in the pistol itself.
The first shot is much more important than the 8th, the 16th, or the 33rd.
The only time I would carry a semiautomatic pistol with an empty chamber would be if it had no manual safety or external hammer and I was forced to carry it in the waistband without a holster, or if it was not “drop-safe” with a round in the chamber. I honestly think anyone uncomfortable carrying a semiautomatic pistol with a round in the chamber should carry a revolver instead. There often is no time to rack a slide when a gun is needed for reactive self-defense, and somewhere close to half the time, the free hand will be otherwise occupied and unavailable for that desperately needed life-saving task.
Mas, after rereading your blog, 2 things come to mind; Gabe White must be extremely skinny. A Glock 34 in appendix carry IWB while seated would be very uncomfortable for any length of time. Ever shoot a match where you had to shout a challenge like “STOP RIGHT THERE”?
Randy-People’sRepublic of Illinois:
Gabe White has historically been very skinny. However, as he progressed into his thirties, he gained the weight commonly associated with an office job. By the time he went to Rogers, he was approximately 40 lbs overweight (for a skinny guy, so he looked pretty normal.) I’m pleased to report that he has lost almost 40 lbs since the beginning of this year, and is almost back to the weight of his early 20s.
Concealing a big gun AIWB is a lot like concealing a big gun anywhere else – it’s more about the holster, and working out fine details of clothing.
Ok, enough with the third-person humorous phrasing.
I use the Keeper, from Keepers Concealment, with a large foam wedge. Very comfortable, for me. Many others find is very comfortable too, but AIWB doesn’t work for everyone, same as strong side IWB doesn’t work for everyone.
Good luck!
Gabe White
Mas – thanks so much for the quick response. I have always carried my semi’s with a round in the chamber and have no intentions of ever changing that. It was the added pressure of the “full stack” beneath it that had me concerned about the magazine springs. Your reply confirms my thinking that the better quality (IMHO) Sig mags accept the additional load better than the pistol I used to EDC (a G30S), although I never had any reloading problems with the Glock. I totally agree with your opinion about racking the slide. One of my best gun brothers (who happens to be a great shooter) always carries with an empty chamber, insisting he will get it right when the SHTF. I cannot convince him that relying on a fine motor skill at that moment is so very wrong – any ideas?
Don, you might want to remind your friend that there’s not a single domestic law enforcement agency that has its cops carry service pistols with empty chambers. He might find a clue there. A huge number of defensive gun usages end up being one-handed events, the other hand injured/occupied with illumination or communication devices/ pushing an innocent victim out of the line of fire, etc.
Don, you might also remind your friend of the “loud music” murder trial a couple of years ago. The defendant claimed that he shot in self defense as he feared for his life. The prosecution team introduced the defendant’s action of racking the slide to chamber a round, just prior to firing, as an act of premeditation to murder. Michael Dunn was convicted, although I have no idea if this “stretch” by the prosecution had any influence on the jury.
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