I try to explain to my students that skillful shooting is not a religion, it’s an evolving art and science.  Then, along comes this…

Colt 1911 bible meme

Which goes nicely with this: 

But I think the funniest Glock versus 1911 treatments can be found here and here.

Personally, I like and use both, so maybe I’m ballistically polytheistic.

Then again, I’m teaching with a Langdon Custom Beretta this week, so maybe I’m just an apostate…

41 COMMENTS

  1. Ohio cop Greg Ellifritz has written several times about an 80-year-old man named Henry who lives by himself on a mountain in Tennessee. Henry’s choice is one or two snubby revolvers tucked into his bib overalls. Caliber is .22 LR. He figures eight or more bullets, fired into a bad guy’s face and chest in less than three seconds, are adequate discouragement.

  2. “The weapon suits the mission” That’s what I learned in the Army. Sometimes ( most) that weapon was an M16A1. Other times it was an M109 A3 155mm SelfPropelled Howitzer. And everything in between.Then there was the Warsaw Pact weapons that were required familiarity. Point is- as a “shootist” we should be able to run every current manufactured handgun we may come across. Pistol or revolver. Not hard to do really these days. You got your plastic striker fired whizbangs and your 1911 clones. As for revolvers..probably nothing easier except a single shot. Now running them well- now things get interesting eh?

    • In other words, “the best tool for the job.” I overheard some young deer hunters in a cafe once bragging about long shots they had made. 500 yards, 600 yards, blah, blah, blah. The cafe proprietor was from the old Army artillery. He quieted the young guys instantly by mentioning that he could drop a deer at ten miles with a 105. Wish we could all carry overwhelming force like that. Hard to find an IWB holster to accommodate six tons of howitzer, though…

  4. I remember an article of yours written twenty-five or so years ago describing how the PROFESSIONAL guys off-duty usually seemed to be carrying the compact single-stack alloy-frame TDA S&W 9mm (e.g. the LadySmith version).

    It seems to me that the Kahr CT-9 is a great updated version of the concept.

    • I never did like any of the composit frame Kahrs. I much prefer the all stainless versions. Same size, a LOT less felt recoil, and rock solid.

      • but those are fine for a small single stack. By far my preferred one is the Browning High Power. Don’t have near enough of those. The old Belgian made ones are the sweetest.

  6. The Glock/Colt argument is as old as the Ford/Chevy one. At least there is one thing that brings us all together…(new)Dodge/Hi Point blows.

    When the fan boys hold up their Glocks and 1911’s I smile back with my S&W M29 🙂

  7. I’m okay with sainthood for John Moses Browning. Or better yet are Larry Correia’s historical fantasy novels “The GrimNoir Chronicles,” where Browning is an action hero.

    But God has told me in no uncertain terms, I am meant to carry a Beretta.

  8. The best course I ever ran had five Target and 5 guns 1 box with five kinds of ammunition. You had to load and Fire each of the guns on a Target and you had to figure out which ammo fit which gun that sir was fun

  11. Mas – Shame on you for being an apostate. I try to adhere to the true faith. The handguns that I like (and shoot) best are my 1911 and my S&W and Colt Revolvers. Guns made of real steel without the taint of polymer or aluminum alloy in their frames. I have never even allowed the likes of a Glock (or an alloy-frame Beretta either, for that matter) to darken the doorway of my home.

    None of us is without sin, however. I must confess that, in moments of weakness and temptation, I did dally around with a few polymer pistols. Mainly ones made by S&W and FN.

    As the Good Book says: (Romans 3:23) “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

  14. I Samuel 17:40…David using a sling and 5 smooth stones….killed Goliath and put the entire Philistine army in flight…obviously he was using a precursor of the S&W J frame.

  15. Always been a 1911 type, Glocks just don’t fit these big paws, but I did just buy a Smith & Wesson.

    625-8

  16. I swear by my trusty Rohm .22 revolver, but don’t carry it during the hotter months when it’s zinc alloy frame may melt inside my pocket.

    I carry a Springfield 1911 in .45 ACP with 3 extra magazines and a Kahr CM 45 modified to take a five round magazine as a backup as it can use 1911 magazines. When at home and not wearing pants, I have a Glock 20 and 22 always within arm’s reach as they hold more ammo and both are equipped with Streamlight weapon lights. My home long gun is a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in .40 S&W with 22 round Glock magazine loaded with Speer 180 grain Gold Dot ammo and is equipped with a red dot sight and Streamlight weapon light. The Kel-Tec’s 16″ barrel gives me 10mm velocities and the muzzle blast and flash is much less than a .223 rifle’s inside a house.

    • @ Tom606 – We sure think alike when it comes to home defense firearms.

      I, too, favor pistol-caliber carbines for home defense. Mine is also a Kel-Tec Sub 2000. Mine is equipped with light/laser combo and a mini-red dot sight. The red dot is off-set mounted so that I can still use the factory iron sights. I can even still fold the Kel-Tec, if I want, with the red dot mounted.

      My carbine is in 9mm luger caliber. I have chronographed several loads though the Kel-Tec and have found that I generally pick up about 200 fps more velocity (compared with a 4-inch barreled pistol) out of the longer carbine barrel. Which means that I am getting roughly .357 Sig performance but with GREATLY reduced muzzle blast.

      My Kel-Tec takes S&W magazines which makes it comparable with the S&W M&P 2.0 (also in 9mm Luger) that I use for my home defense handgun.

      I can’t say that I own any “trusty Rohm’s” but I will confess to keeping an older (Planet-of-the-Apes style) Hi-Point Carbine (in 40 S&W caliber) in my vehicle as a “Truck Gun”. Despite the nature of its materials and design, I have to say that this old Hi-Power has always proved reliable with whatever brand of ammo that I have fed it. I am forced to call it “trusty”! 🙂

    • Typo correction to my above comment. In my last paragraph, I mistakenly typed “Hi-Power” when I meant to type “Hi-Point”. Obviously, there is a “World of Difference” between a “Hi-Power” and a “Hi-Point”. 🙂

      I deeply regret my error and meant no insult to John M Browning!

      • TN_MAN:

        I don’t really own a Rohm revolver, but have seen them in pawn shops and gunshows, and not only on Saturday nights. The 9mm Hi-Point is the gun I have taken most often (3 of them) from suspects who were carrying them illegally. Interestingly none of them were fully loaded and the magazines in two of them held only FMJ ammo while one had a few hollow points mixed in. One would think the owner would load a hollow point in the chamber and make the top rounds in the magazine hollow points followed by the FMJ ammo, but that was not the case. Shows how dumb those wannabe gangsters were.

        I bought my Kel-Tec used and the 9mm versions were $30-$40 more than the .40 S&W caliber models. I prefer the .40 S&W, but a Kel-Tec with 16″ barrel in 9mm taking the 33 round Glock magazines loaded with Speer 125 grain +P Gold Dot ammo should be adequate for defensive use. I do have an AR-15 and Remington 870 in 12 gauge available at home too, just in case. JMB is still doing about 500 RPM in his grave because of your demeaning mistake.

      • TOM606:

        I suspected that your “Rohm” comment was “tongue-in-cheek”. However, I actually do own a “Planet-of-the-Apes” style Hi-Point carbine in 40 S&W. I picked it up, used, for $140 from a pawn shop. Figured that it would make a good, “knockabout” carbine to carry in my vehicle. If it was to get damaged in an accident or stolen, it would not exactly be a heartbreaking loss! 🙂

        I picked up a couple of spare, 10-round magazines for it. It is actually a very reliable carbine. It will shoot JHP’s just fine. Plus it is certainly accurate enough to hit targets out to a hundred meters or so. That is all I ask of it.

        My Kel-Tec carbine, in 9mm, is also super reliable. It will shoot whatever ammo I feed it. It does not care about magazines either. The regular 17-round S&W magazines feed great. I even have a couple of 32-round ProMag Magazines. The Kel-Tec feeds them just fine too.

        I also keep a 12-gauge pump available if I need serious punch. Mine is a Mossberg rather than a Remington.

        @ Strategic Steve – I have tried a bunch of different types of ammo in my Sub 2000. It does not seem to matter with respect to feeding. My Sub 2000 will eat anything you feed into it.

        The lightest round that I have tested is the 74 grain APX Interceptor (screw-head type) round. It blazed out of my Sub-2000 with an average velocity of 1738 fps according to my chronograph. From a pistol, I got 1490 fps with this ammo.

        The old Federal 9BP 115 grain 9mm round (standard pressure) gave an average of 1329 from the Sub-2000. From a pistol, I got 1127 with this round.

        The 124 grain bonded +P Remington golden saber round got 1376 fps on average. This round gave 1185 fps from a pistol. Note that this is near 357 SIG performance for this ammo from the longer carbine barrel. I have a 357 SIG pistol (4-inch barrel) and have checked its velocity with Remington Golden Saber ammo. The velocity with the 125 grain Remington load was right at the listed 1350 fps.

        One interesting thing. The Hornady 135 grain (Std Pressure) Critical Duty ammo does not seem to benefit much from the longer barrel. I only clocked 1094 fps from the Sub-2000. This is only a modest improvement over the 1010 fps rated for this ammo from a pistol-length barrel.

        Overall, if you want good stopping power from a 9mm carbine, I would favor one of the 124 grain +P bonded loads such as the golden saber or the Federal HST.

        If you wanted to put a suppressor on the carbine (actually muzzle blast and report are not bad even without one) then one of the heavier, subsonic rounds would be best. Maybe the 147 grain Federal HST although (please note) that even the 135 grain (Std Pressure) Hdy. Critical Duty round was (mostly) subsonic out of my Kel-Tec.

      • TN_MAN:

        One of the most popular firearms sold/ordered at a local gun shop I often visit is the Hi-Point 10mm carbine in it’s various finishes. The gun is relatively inexpensive, reliable according to several owners, and fairly powerful for it’s size. I wouldn’t want one because of it’s limited magazine capacity. For me, owning a Hi-Point is like a Hell’s Angels or Pagans member riding a Suzuki bike.

      • Tom606 – “The gun is relatively inexpensive, reliable according to several owners, and fairly powerful for it’s size.”

        Yes, the 40 S&W round can approach 10mm ballistics from a carbine-length barrel. Of course, the 40 S&W case capacity is limited. This limits the potential gain in velocity from the longer barrel. It can’t match the velocity gain that you would get from shooting the 41 Remington Magnum from a carbine-length barrel because the .41 Rem has much greater powder capacity.

        Nevertheless, if you reload (like I do), you can tweak the performance of the 40 S&W round from a longer barrel by careful powder selection.

        For example, to see what I could get out of my Hi-Point carbine, I loaded up some 40 S&W rounds with a 180 grain JHP over Alliant Power Pistol powder. Note that the powder charge used was withing the limits set by the reloading manuals. I did not create some kind of +P load. Rather, I used a powder that was slow and dense enough to give good performance in a longer barrel and from the limited-capacity 40 S&W case.

        This load, from my Hi-Point carbine, gave an average velocity of 1275 fps and energy level of 650 ft-lbs. This was at 12 feet from the muzzle. That was the spot that I set up my chronograph.

        As you can see, that is in 10mm territory and does represent a load that would offer good stopping power against humans or medium game at close range. Say, within 50 meters.

        So, yes indeed, the 40 S&W from a carbine can have plenty for power for defensive purposes.

  17. When God made na, He made us in HIS image, male and female, and ONLY ONE RACE. Yup we come in a bunch of different sizes, shapes, shades. But still only one race.

    I kinda think that when He gave man the wisdom to come up with the firearm He sort of followed suit. They come in a bunch of different sizes, shapes, capacities, made of a bunch of different “stuff”. But when it all gets through the try=pot, there is still only one category of “thing”.. the firearm. And ALL of them are, if the one holding it is, capable of doing one or both of two things: either poking (or being capable of doing so) enough holes in an attacker to assist said attacker in making an informed decision to do something else wihth his time.. or putting food on the table to contribute toward long life and happienss/fatness.

  18. Well, I guess I’m a Calvinist.
    Seeing as how the All Saints Church in Wittenberg, where Martin Luther nailed his Ninety Five Theses to the door on Halloween Day in 1517, is only a few hundred miles from SIG’s Schleswig-Holsteinfactory, where the original P-Series pistols were built makes think that Sig Sauer started the Reformed Theology of Pistols. The P226 is IMHO, the ultimate ‘Reformed’ DA/SA hammer fired metal handgun and the purest design of small arms gunfighting.

    And I’m still clearly a Protestant, having resisted the lure of the apostate ‘indulgences’ of the poly-striker cult. No, you cannot ‘pay’ your way into Tactical Heaven by simply buying an ugly black Austrian block! LOL!

  19. I’ve carried a Colt Combat Commander since 1985. I do own a S&W M&P 2.0 compact with thumb safety to allow me to shoot 9 mm in a gun that handles the same way as my Colt, but I never carry it.

    In my state, we’re limited to 10 round magazines, so the 16 round capacity in the Smith is wasted.

    Most important though, the Colt is very easy for me to conceal. It’s thinner, and doesn’t show under untucked polo, or under a jacket.

    The Smith in it’s new fangled, Kydex holster prints like crazy.

    Call me a dinosaur, but the Colt still works for me.

  20. One thing.
    Glocks are butt ugly. If you have any aesthetic sensibility, just seeing a Glock makes you think “Dogs Playing Poker”, or “Velvet Elvis paintings.”

  21. How true and funny at the same time. In my earlier years shooting IDPA before a match we had a shooter from another club announcing the upcoming Glock only match and how he played up the Glock/1911 stigmas. It was entertaining being a newer shooter to competition

  22. The most enlightening experiences I’ve had were participating in service pistol trials. Got to shoot a bunch of various makes/models at the same time and on the same courses and make comparisons. ‘T’was a learning experience.

    Some things I learned, I might have missed a couple:
    1. The rounded/angled top of the slide draws the eye to the sights. The square ones don’t.
    2. A composite frame doesn’t sap heat from the hands in cold weather like a metal frame does.
    3. The Sig’s taught me where Col Cooper got the “crunchenticker” label for TDA. TDAs-at least for me-are much easier/faster to handle if the difference in trigger weight/length of travel aren’t so very different.
    4. A trigger that’s the same all the time makes a lot more difference than you’d think.
    5. Advertising slogans and brand rep do NOT guarantee s functional firearm. The fictional Lord Pete Whimsey was correct when he noted that “Quality guarantees the name. It don’t work the other way around.”
    6. Good customer service is at least as valuable as the product. Everyone cranks out a clunker every now and then. You also don’t generate brand loyalty when you respond to complaints about a malfunctioning example by telling the prospective customer that there’s no problem with the product, they’re too stupid to operate the product.
    7. Plastic sights???? REALLY?????

    If you think there’s a faint whiff of Austrian Arrogance about 5-7, you’re correct. If someone treats you like that BEFORE you buy the product, think how much consideration you’ll get after they’ve got your money.

    Find something that fits your hand/physical capabilities and that you can operate easily and safely while shooting well.

  23. My Father In Law was in the 21st Marines, 3rd Division and was a telephone guy. He spent most of the battles dragging wire, down on the ground and carried a 1911 because a rifle was too much when carrying a spool of phone wire. On Iwo, the sand would foul a 1911, so he went with Kabar in one hand and wire in the other, hole to hole. Those holes often had a Japanese soldier lying in wait, but he came home without a scratch. He preferred a BAR to the Garand and would trade up at his first opportunity.

    • In the past many black parents named their sons Moses, but now the more popular name is Mohammed or something very hard to pronounce.

  25. Well I have Glocks… and I have 1911s…. SIGS…. and lots of good wheelguns!

    This Glock .vs. 1911 is kind of like which of anything is best. What is best is what one can do with what one has. I often pack a 1911 (Kimber Stainless Classic MK 1)… and often pack a Glock (26, gen 3)! When hiking I pack a S&W 624 4 inch .44 Special (unless it’s a short hike, then I just carry a S&W 60-15 Pro…)

    I like ’em all and after 40 years of IPSC/IDPA, lots of trophies, a ton of classes, seminars, and hunting, I am kind of familiar with ’em all.

    And don’t talk to me about AR-15 .vs. AK-47.

  26. I once held a Glock, didn’t look right and didn’t feel right so haven’t even fired one.
    I own and carry S&W, Walther and Colt. They feel right and their bullets usually end up pretty much where I want them.
    Nothing to fuss about, if Glock rings your bell that’s fine with me.

  27. I just ignited a firestorm over on Jocko Willlink’s Facebook page in a discussion started by a potential new handgun owner who asked which pistol is best for home defense. Of course there was the chorus of Tactical Tupperware enthusiasts that I had to offend.

    The design of what came to be known as Colt’s Model of 1911 was revealed to John Moses Browning by the Almighty and everything else has been an attempt to improve perfection.
    Here endeth the lesson.

  28. For me, comparing a Browning 1911 to a Glock is like choosing between Cindy Crawford and Claudia Schiffer back when they were in their prime. I would be happy with either, but would pick the American Cindy/Browning over the foreigners if I have to. Of course, Hillary Clinton was/is more gorgeous than either of those slutty supermodels 😉

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