One shibboleth you often run across in discussions of armed self-defense is “If you shoot anyone more than seven yards away from you, you’re screwed in court.”

As someone who has earned his primary income from teaching use of force for a very long time, I beg to differ. If the guy you had to shoot had a gun, the very fact that you shot him with yours meant that he was probably capable of shooting you with his.

Read my article here.

from Combat Handguns magazine, which is now online.

The long range shot with the gun you have with you – most likely a sidearm – is rare, but can and does happen. Accordingly, you want to know that you and your gun can do it. Consider Vic Stacy’s very long shot with a super-accurate Colt Python .357 Magnum that saved a cop’s life and his own from a multiple murderer, or Jack Wilson’s precision brain shot at some fifteen yards with a .357 SIG P229 like the one I’m holding in the picture, which he fired double action on no more than five seconds notice to stop a multiple murderer in his church.

18 COMMENTS

  1. While the vast majority of defensive gun uses don’t involve any shots, it’s quite clear on the gun forums that vast multitudes have decided that means one doesn’t have to pack a serious gun. As someone noted long ago, it’s better than a stern look and a harsh word, but what if you actually have to use the thing to save yourself or others?

    While the average civilian self defense encounter (per the Rangemaster website) is 5 yards, there’s one on record at 27. And there are longer ones as Mas notes. The famous Hichok/Tutt gunfight allegedly took place at 75 yards,. More recently there was a MP who took out a gunman at a measured 72 yards.

    I’ve used the “If I shot him, that means he could have shot me.” line myself here and there. I think the lack of will to extend practice ranges-if they do any-has many drivers. The cost of ammo is coming down, but there are still a lot of mental barriers. Wonder if the “legal issues” are a self serving excuse?

  2. Granted, a long distance self defense shot is rare. Truthfully, so is a short distance self defense shot, but we still need to practice both. It is very important that as an armed citizen we know our ‘outer limits’ as well as we know our other abilities.

  3. I routinely practice at 25-50 yards with a Beretta 92FS. Even if I never use it at that distance, it builds skill and patience that is very useful at 15 yards or less.

    By the way, ask Andy Brown about distance shots. He put down a psychopath at the Fairchild AFB hospital in ‘94 at 70 yards with a M9. Distance skill can come in handy.

    • I found that strategy works well. When you can make long shots easily, shorter ranges are even easier.

      I verified that strategy time & time again on the range on the clock.

  4. I love that combination, it was my daily carry for nearly two decades and largely ever since I retired earlier this year. And it is an excellent platform to take long distance shots, if need be.

    My old agency has been issuing Sig Sauer pistols since around 1990, and used the 357 Sig caliber from 1998 to about 2018, to very great effect. I was issued a P229 in .357 Sig about 14 years ago, carried it every day, and absolutely loved it. I didn’t even mind that it was DAK, having been raised on revolvers I took to that trigger system pretty quickly. I love the fact that the heft of the gun really eats up the recoil and that Speer Gold Dot is nowhere near being “unmanageable” as some have exaggerated. To the point of your article here, another big benefit of the 357 Sig is that it is *very* flat shooting; at the pistol range I could routinely and comfortably make 70 to 100 yd shots with it.

    It’s interesting your article mentioned so many of these incidents happening in my home state of Texas. One you did not mention but are likely aware of involved mounted officer named Sgt. Adam Johnson who in 2018 made a very long range shot of approximately 312 ft, with a Smith & Wesson M&P chambered in .40 S&W, not exactly a chambering known for its long distance accuracy.

    Johnson dropped a mentally unstable would-be killer named Larry McQuilliams, who had been shooting up downtown Austin with an AK-47 and a 22 rifle, and it already tried to burn down the Mexican Consulate. At the time of the shooting, he was firing 30 round bursts into the police building and at the mountain officers themselves.

    Incredibly, Johnson made the shot one-handed while his other hand was still holding the reins of his horse, Knucklehead.

    It is a great story and very much worth the read, but most importantly for this post it absolutely underscores everything you said about long distance, threat elimination.

    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2016/09/04/how-a-single-improbable-shot-last-year-put-a-stop-to-a-night-of-terror/10027640007/

  6. Thanks Mas, I enjoyed the article. A lot of good examples of why we need to train for multiple scenarios. Much appreciated!

  8. I have the same thing multiple times at shooting ranges. I think it is mostly uttered by those who can barely keep their shots on a man-sized target at 7 yards and have no inclination to do better. Several times I have asked them what they would do if the threat was shooting at them from 25 yards. Most responses were “well, that just doesn’t happen.” Ok, Barney!

  10. Back a ways when I had money to be buying “things” I was in to visit my FFL transfer dealer. He was stuck on terminal hold with ATF for a check, and I began wandering he shelves of his small cozy shop. Noticed a very clean and nice Smith fulll sized revolver, .357, six inch barrel, I hefted and handled it, it felt right. He was still on hold at his desk a ways away and said to me “try that trigger”. I did. Amazingly smooth, very crisp break, not as much pressure as I expected. I carried it over to be next him as he completed his call. When done we chatted.. how much? He gave a number, lower than I xpected but sill not within reach just then. Sigh. A few weeks later I was back in to see him, and again had time to prowl the shelves. Tht Smith was still there. More han a month now. I asked again is price, it had dropped an hndred bucks. I said I want it but did not have the cash on me. I’d have to come back in a couple days.He said I’ll hold it. Came in and bought i. Glad I did….

    some time later I was back again…. he had that thing stuck in his ear waiting for ATF as usual, and I wandered about. Noticed a target on a wall.. letter size sheet, top lef corner a name I did not recognise, date, and name of he range (I knew where i was). top right were listed the type and calibre gun used, bullet weigh, and range…. 250 yards. Wait a minute, this was shot at 250 yards with a HANDGUN? Holes on paper were a 4, 2 3’s, 2, and a 2/1 liner. My guy’s business wih BATF was done and he saw me staring a that target re-reading it. He said that was his friend’s work, and fired with the Smith I now had. Range WAS indeed 250 yards.

    Then it hit me.. having SEEN what MY gun is capable of doing, I realised if it ever would NOT shoot like that the issue would be with ME not the piece of steel I was holding.

    It also instilled in me a new respect for what a handgun, in the RIGHT (that means likely not mine) hands is capable of delivering. .

    • Then there is the 600-yard Elmer Keith shot on a buck (I don’t remember if a deer or an elk) made with a revolver. The ungulate admittedly was not shooting at Elmer.

  14. Aim – you can’t miss fast enough to win a gunfight.
    In one of the few real; ‘two men, middle of main street’, gunfights in the west. Wild Bill Hickock fired the second shot. After Davis Tutt shot missed him, Hickok who had paused to steady his pistol on his left forearm, fired from 75 yards away and hit Tutts’ heart.

  15. Something belatedly dawned upon me. Some of us elders may have some issues with longer ranges. I find I can do alright with the sights on my stainless 64-5, but plain black sights are an issue. The RDS equipped semi would be the hands on choice, but concealment is challenging.

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