As we learn more about the man who shot 40-some people, leaving 13 dead thus far, at our largest military base, we predictably see certain forces in society demonizing the weapon, not the demon who carried out the act. From the first day, we saw CNN et al emphasize that the slayer had used a (shudder!) semi-automatic weapon.
When it came out that he had used a 5.7X28mm pistol, to wit the FN Five-SeveN, some in the media and among the brie-and-chablis crowd seemed almost to wet themselves. This gun had already become a focus of the anti-gunners, who call it a “cop-killer.”
Now, I’m a little more on top of murders of police, and officer survival issues, than the average bear, and I’ve not yet found a case of a police officer being murdered with this particular handgun. But, I’m an old guy and probably getting forgetful. Can anyone ELSE document such a case? If so, post it here, please. Forgive me if I don’t hold my breath too hard…
The mainstream media is, in large part, overlooking the fact that the accused mass-murderer had studied under a radical Islamist who had also taught some of the 9/11 terrorists (LINK HERE). And that the accused killer had allegedly posted on the Internet, comparing suicide bombers with soldiers who throw themselves on grenades to save their comrades in battle (LINK HERE). AND that he was a totally hypocritical FALSE Muslim. Out of one side of his mouth, he sought a traditional Muslim bride who would wear the hajib and pray five times a day. Out of the other side of his, uh, mouth, he apparently sipped light beer and bought lap dances for $50 a time from American blondes at strip joints. (LINK HERE)
My heart goes out to the victims and their families. I have family at Fort Hood myself. And I feel for the estimated 3500 followers of the Islamic faith who honorably serve at this writing in our nation’s armed services. I hope these loyalists won’t be tarred by the same brush as Hassan.
And I am saddened to see clueless journalists instead blame and demonize the gun, which has roughly the on-paper ballistics of a .22 Magnum rifle that you or I might use to shoot woodchucks on the farm to keep them out of the lettuce patch.
The 5.7 in its original SS190 military load was indeed designed to pierce armor, and still tumble through flesh, creating substantial wound potential. From its inception a score of years ago to now, there has been much controversy over whether it’s a magic man-stopper or an impotent mouse-gun. Morbid as it sounds to say it, a LONG time from now, once the medical reports and autopsy results have been tallied and declassified, this terrible incident will give researchers information that may answer that question.
For now, it suffices for logical people to recognize that the pistol was not the demon.
In this terrible incident, the demon was the one holding the pistol.
The FN Five-SeveN with its 5.7X28mm cartridge.
Note that at the moment of discharge, mild recoil of the 5.7mm leaves muzzle on target, ready for next shot.
Mouse gun indeed. Our swat team shot 13 rounds into a drug dealer from about 12 yards. A P90, which uses the same round as FN 5.7 was the weapon and all hits were center of the chest. All the dealer could say to the SWAT officer, was stop hitting me with that, it hurts. Suspect didn’t drop his gun until another SWAT Officer shot him with a .40 in the spine.
That ended his evil ways and freed up another cell phone in the hood. We now stick with M-4’s and have quite a few P90s in the armory. We call the round a “less than lethal” round.
Probably a lot more to it. First it was two pistols (add the old .357)…then he never used the .357 (which made a lot more sense – difficult to shoot two guns at a time with any kind of accuracy or usefulness). There were also two separate shooting locations and separate shooters….then only one.
Be nice to know what actually happened!
Taurus MADE a .22 Hornet revolver but discontinued it. About same ballistics.
To be fair, I enjoy wine and cheese tremendously. However, I also have a Pistol/Revolver License issued by the Granite State and I am proud to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights.
Pistol/Revolver License?
What is that?
Don’t have one here
Texas has 2 categories of Concealed Handgun License: SA, which allows all handguns, whether semi-automatic or not & NSA, which allows only handguns that are not semi-automatic (usually revolvers but could be single shot, such as derringers).
I saw the “Cop Killer Gun Used at Ft Hood” headline on Salon.Com just a day or so after the attack and cringed. When I found out they were referring to the FN FiveSeven, I could taste the throw-up in the back of my throat. The media’s response to atrocities like this is remarkably predictable.
On the day of this terrorist act, an MSNBC reporter asked “How could he have caused so many casualties with a handgun?” He was an ARMED man in the midst of scores of UNARMED victims! What an amazingly ignorant question.
I like lists. As noted above by the other readers, the MSM has focused on several points. So far I have seen the following:
1. 5.7 is some kind of “special assault weapon”.
2. The FN has magazines with “huge amounts of ammo”.
2. Causalities had to be a result of “friendly fire” (this made by Jack Jacobs, MOH winner on MSNBC – sorry but he made an ass of himself)
3. Latest was that the Major used a “laser sighting device” so he could kill more easily (time to sell the Crimson Trace stock, Chuck Schumer is surely going to introduce a bill to classify lasers with other NFA gear like silencers. I would bet you a 100 bucks on that one).
FWIW, I remember that afternoon and the newscasts were saying multiple shooters possible. In other words, they didn’t know the story before reporting it.
Doing the math on this, the 5.7 produced predictable results with only 30% of the victims having fatal wounds. If the shooter had used standard calibers like the venerable .357, .45 ACP, or the current law enforcement favorite, the .40 S&W, we probably would have seen a much more gruesome outcome (I am speculating, of course, as I have no data on actual shot placement, which is a more critical factor). Would the media have labeled these as cop killers too, or would they have focused more on the shooter since he would have “only used standard” ammunition? If he had used a Redwing hammer, how would contractors have fared in the media spotlight? Once again, the power of the media to affect sociopolitical change through misdirection is all too evident.
Mass,
You may not want to print this?
I hate to be gross about this, but it looks like the shooter choose a poor weapon.
There has been some debate about the effectiveness of the 5.7×28 round. My feeling is that the worry may be justified. It does not seem to have been very lethal and I wonder how effective it was.
I know it is a crude thing to be thinking about, but it may prove the 5.7×28 to be ineffective for self defense or military use.
Jim
I hear Kel-Tec’s going to market a .22 Magnum semiauto pistol – at a MUCH lower price. 30-rd. magazines, too. Bet it really cuts into sales of FN’s 5.7×28 pistols.
I think that it is interesting that Hassan chose this weapon. I looked at one at Bass Pro and it is the only autoloader pistol that they sell that is over $ 1200. Hassan made $ 90,000 per year and lived in a $300 apartment so he had plenty of savings. Thank God that this terrorist did not use a more effective weapon.
By the way, don’t try to visit any US Military academy with any firearm in your vehicle. You will be turned away. My experience was at the Air Force Academy when I wanted to show my wife and children the facility. Hassan would not have been asked at the Ft. Hood gate and would have lied anyway.
I know I will get flammed for this, but how is it that when a guy stands up in a room full of trained soldiers and starts shooting, no one just jumps the guy? Sure, some would have still been killed, but not nearly as many. In my opinion the training needs to be to bum rush the guy, not duck for cover and wait to get shot in the arse.
FWIW, the natural instinct is to “duck for cover,” it’s a reflexive action. We’ve all seen this at one time or another anytime a loud noise occurs unexpectedly, everyone in the crowd “ducks.”
It does make one wonder though. You’d think that after the initial shock of the first few rounds, someone would have assessed the stituation and taken appropriate action to neutralize the threat.
Dear Mr. Ayoob, I read your articles anywhere I can, they are packed with common sense. Today I bought your book (Combat Handgunnery, 6th ed.) Its great and informative, I looked for (In the Gravest Extreme) but the store didn’t have it. This is probably not the right place to contact you but I have been looking for your direct contact info for some time now, I hope thats not inapropriate, but if you get a chance could you please respond to my email, I have some seriouse issues and questions I need your input on. Thank you sincerely for everything you do. kavkaz45cal@yahoo.com
Sam.
I sure hope they don’t switch the bullets. If they were the illegal armor piercing type,then maybe some other accomplices can be found who may have supplied them to Hasan. If he got them from military sources, then procedures can be tightened up.
Its more of a investigatory then a ballistic matter.
Keep working ,great job! This was what I needed to know.
Thirteen rounds into a drug dealer at twelve yards with no effect,…
I find that very hard to believe.
David, truth is often much stranger than fiction. I have a funny feeling that in that case, the sternum and ribcage played a HUGE role in stopping those rounds.
I bought the Five-Seven because I think light and fast is as good as heavy and slow (.223, etc.), and is easier to hit with.
But I suppose there’s a threshold, either of velocity or weight, below which it isn’t true.
I’m happy to report that I have no experience with its effectiveness. But I sure can hit with it.
Rapier vs broadsword, perhaps?