Shortly after the clock ticks into the early morning hours of July 20 during a midnight movie premier at a theater in Aurora, Colorado, a mass murderer opens fire. A dozen or more dead, dozens more wounded, and practically by the time responding officers arrive the anti-gunners are already at their keyboards choreographing their traditional dance in the blood of innocent victims. One, CNN’s resident Pommie priss – who has already long since proven himself totally clueless as to the real-world dynamics of violence – twitters that guns should be 100,000 times harder to access.
Maybe jobs as public-opinion-forming talking heads should be 100,000 times harder to get, as well. By the way, the “Pommie” reference is nothing against the British in general. The pragmatic Brits I know are aware that they have living countrymen who remember when England begged American gun owners to ship them hunting rifles, shotguns, and handguns for their civilians to use as last ditch weapons against the expected Nazi land invasion. It was the Brits themselves who coined POME (Prisoner Of Mother England) to define their brothers and sisters who evinced the mentality we see in the commentator in question.
Overlooked by most is a point discovered by famed Constitutional lawyer Don Kates: the theater in question forbade firearms inside. They themselves made it impossible for even one good person in the theater to draw a lawfully-carried handgun and put a bullet through the monster’s brain, to stop the horror and shortstop the tragedy.
Once again, we see that “gun free zones” are hunting preserves for psychopaths who prey on humans.
I haven’t looked (come on, I just ate) but no doubt right now on sites like Daily Kos they’re enjoying their usual Two Minute Hate against gun owners. And those conversations just aren’t complete without a few “experts” on Freudian psychoanalysis giggling like tweener girls that “they just want to have guns because their thingies are small tee-hee”.
I haven’t seen data but I suspect that for most of them their “expertise” comes from that C- they got in the freshman Psychology class they took. They would have gotten a better grade but they only took the class in the hope of learning some cool Jedi mind tricks to get girls out of their panties or to get Daddy to send more money. When they found out that they wouldn’t be getting any magical powers they lost interest. But nonetheless they’re the experts; they’re sophisticated and witty too.
Ah, sorry about the rant. But those people get on my raw side, doing things like that before the deceased have even been decently laid to rest.
Thinking of mindset: While the shooter is responsible for his actions, what of the school boards who are responsible for teaching children (who eventually grow into adults) that they must be passive in the face of bullying aggression?
Children are taught that if they use violence to defend themselves from attack, they will be punished. They are taught to not resist, or they will be punished.
So, when I read accounts by people in the theater to the effect that the shooter “just kept shooting except when he was reloading”, I had to wonder why apparently not one person used those moments to counter attack. Three men apparently were murdered for using their own bodies to protect their girlfriends, but so far no reports of any active counterattacks.
Our school boards demand passivity in the face of attack, and when under stress, we revert to training: run away and tell the teacher someone is being mean. Never defend yourself. Never. That is mindset, and it has life-long effects.
RE: CO CCW Laws on Private Property-
It’s my understanding if a PRIVATE business posts “No Firearms” etc and you still carry, it’s Trespassing (a petty offense, I believe). And it may only be Trespassing if you do so knowingly and remain there after being ask/told to leave. I’m not a lawyer but that’s my understanding of the law.
My wife and I rarely go to the movies anymore, prefering to rent/buy the movie when it comes out. We’ve officially listed movie theatres as a “Stupid Place”. So as TXCOMT said, no CCW holders were able to stop the monster because we avoid criminal safe zones. And yes, while my wife and I are in our 20s, we’re home by 7-8pm latest. Nothing good happens after dark.
@Mas- Here’s an interesting question, what if there was a CCW holder present at the movie theatre who stopped the shooter with their firearm.
What kind of legal ground would the CCW holder be standing on if he either intentionally carried in a “No firearms” place (therefore tresspassing) or unintentionally carried in a “No firearms” place?
Mas, could you post a link to the ‘gun-free’ theater reference? I’d like to post it elsewhere.
“To make matters worse, “No Guns” signs hold weight of law in Colorado, so it was not only against Theater policy, it was CRIMINAL to carry to protect yourself in that Theater.”
I, too, would like verification of that. Here in Ohio a “No Guns” posting on private property that is ignored carries only a civil trespassing charge (and only then if you refuse to leave after discovered). Therefore I always ignore those “Criminal Protection Zone” signs as the benefits far outweight the consequences.
It is time to teach the People to rush the shooter and tear him to little pieces, it is time to tell people to strike back vigorously when attacked or threatened. No more cooperate and live, which doesn’t work. Two rows of vigorous patrons attacking the monster, may have become two rows of shredded patrons but by the time the third and fourth row got to the monster he would have be very afraid.
Is there anyplace on Earth where most of the people in a theater are armed? Isn’t the thought of Grandma pulling a Glock out of her purse kind of silly?
The Colonel Grossman supported paradigm of violence preparation in American society is much more to the point then shooting it out in a theater. Shootouts should be the last resort. Fire preparation is mandated by law, and violence preparation should be as well. The Israelis face much greater day to day threat levels than the average American does. They better understand the need for violence preparation out of necessity. They had air marshals on their planes, and America did not; hence 911. Why should anyone be able to leave through a fire exit when there is no fire? There should be one way in and out of a theater unless there is an actual fire. There should be a dress code and checkpoint going into the theater that can help prevent concealment of weapons if you are going to have a gun free zone. Whether or not civilians are not allowed to carry, there should be an armed guard in that theater, mall, public gathering etc. This individual walked out of the fire exit and slipped a material in the door so he could enter from the outside later. There should be one way in and one way out unless a fire occurs. An ounce of prevention is always better than a pound of cure.
Not at all. Grandparents have defended themselves, against younger home invaders. And I do agree, with above poster that we are taught to be afraid, and to allow things to happen, than to fight, I was like that in my middle school years.
Kelly – then apparently you didn’t hear the one about the grandma pulled over in a traffic stop, who announced her conceal carry & gun to the officer. When questioned about what she was afraid of, she replied – “Not a F’ng thing”.
I’m one of those grandmas. And I’ll protect my family and home as well as any.
Thanks Mas, for the rational explanation of the crux of the problem. It will be some time, before people realize that it’s not the guns they’re afraid of — it’s the people around them, who might be as delusional and evil as Holmes.
@Kelly: “Isn’t the thought of Grandma pulling a Glock out of her purse kind of silly?”
My Grandma carried. Why is it silly? Because she was a woman? Or because she had grandchildren? Are you perhaps buying into the stereotype that older people are always feeble Grampa Simpson types?
@Earl: I agree 100%. Why cooperate with somebody who has already opened fire?
Regarding the already growing demand for more gun control laws I ask those bleeding hearts who think that is the solution, if the nutcase who killed those 12 people inside the theater had instead used a car and run down and killed 50 people standing in line outside the theater, would you be screaming to ban cars?
Mas:
Heard this morning “The View” put out an open invitation for Wayne LaPierre to appear on that influential (to clueless women voters) program. I immediately called the NRA and requested Mr. LaPierre take up that offer, and I further suggested Mr. LaPierre bring you along.
I would hope you would also contact the NRA and offer to appear on that program with Mr. LaPierre. It would be a priceless opportunity to school the shills on that Democrat propaganda machine before a national audience.
Keep up the great work!
I couldn’t agree more my Brother. An interesting article today amidst the anti-gun chatter, http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/pickup-truck-crash-texas-photo-144056003.html. 23 people were in a Ford F250 pickup, yes, TWENTY THREE people when the truck overturned and killed 13 people. That’s one more than the Colorado shooting but NOBODY is screaming at the auto manufacturers to install a 6 person safety on every truck sold. Did you realize that EBAY sells cars and trucks? Merchants of death.
All kidding aside, I hope we learn from this act and perhaps people will see the signs in the unstable so this can be caught before it happens.
Stay safe my Brother, keep up the GREAT work you do
There is some peculiarity of Colorado CCW law, I believe, that nullifies signs that say “guns not welcome here” even including private businesses. But that does not preclude such businesses from putting up the signs. State law specifies and supersedes local laws and < I think, personal preferences.
Aurora, the town, has some rather strict ordinances about carry and the Aurora area should not be considered as a gun-friendly town. All stuff I have just learned in the past two or three days.
That said the next morning Brian Ross and George Stephanopolous (yes, Clinton's press secretary) took the opportunity to google the shooter's name, coming up with an identification of a third party in Aurora (with the same name as the shooter but no other connection) who happened to be a Tea Party advocate, and blamed the shootings on "Tea Party violence."
Draw your own conclusions about their legitimacy as news providers. Since then the fellow has had to disconnect his phone due to the volume of harassing calls.
I would also note that this guy was outfitted with body armor, a gas mask and used either tear-gas or a smoke bomb to further the chaos.
In the end he simply gave himself up to the police, surrendering without a fight and even sitting on his car awaiting their arrival.
Why did he have that body armor at all? he didn’t plan on shooting it out with the police, that’s clear from his not taking the opportunity to do so.
I think he prepared just in case there was somebody in the theater who was carrying and might have thwarted his plan early on. He wasn’t afraid of the police, he was afraid of an armed citizen and behaved accordingly.
So take note. In such a situation, should one of us ever find ourselves in such a scenario, don’t stop shooting and shoot for lower-mass, thighs and hips rather than center mass if possible. Also remember that the best way to defeat an ambush is to charge it. And shooting from behind is not cowardly, you’re saving lives.
Illinois bob: sorry to break the news to you but guns are not illegal in the UK. Handguns are illegal. You need a shotgun certificate to own a shotgun our any type up to a 3 round magazine. It is your RIGHT to own a shotgun you have however prove you gave a safe place to store it and you have to be free of criminal convictions obviously sane. The police may only refuse one on that basis. A fire arms license allows shotguns of 8+1 capacity .22 rifles in semi auto in almost any magazine capacity, rifles up to 5 round magazine in most calibres. All this is a section 1 Firearms license. There is also a section 5 which allows far more though few of us have them. To obtain a license you have to prove you have somewhere to use them as well as the above conditions for a shotgun certificate. Also any calibre deemed obsolete may be owned without a license though of course you have to promise not to fire it! 10 gauge is deemed obsolete when manufactured prior to a certain date. As are many handgun calibres. Visit http://WWW.Gunstar.co.uk a kind of ebay for gun owners to see the range on offer.There are over 1 million license holders with an estimated 5 million weapons, though if my collection is any guide the numbers way low. And yes just like most countries in the world most of our gun crime occurs using illegally held weapons.
Heck, even on Fox News I just heard someone say that the ammo the guy bought “isn’t used for self-defense” and question whether someone should be allowed to buy ammo in those quantities. I longed for an experienced shooter to be in the room to explain that any halfway serious sport shooter buys ammo by the case, at least…simple economics. Likewise a self-defense oriented shooter buys in quantity because of the necessity of practice.
And for cryin’ out loud you DO use those types of ammo for self-defense!
The readers who advocate staying home after sunset are absolutely correct. Unless one works evenings and nights, there’s little reason to be roaming around in the dark when the predators crawl out from their lairs to prey on hapless victims.
Denver when I lived there in the 1980’s was already a fairly liberal place and I’m sure it’s gotten much worse now. I was in my 20’s back then and not being as wise as I’m now, I went out often at night with my girlfriends and co-workers to movies and clubs. Since I didn’t have a carry license back then, I had to leave my 1911 in the car, until I moved to Greeley and got a badge which allowed me to pack heat. That was a good feeling to be able to legally carry a firearm to defend myself and others, and I became more popular with my friends as I can now protect them during our forays out at night instead of just being the ‘designated driver’ since I don’t drink.
That said, we should all be responsible for our own defense and not have to depend on others or the police for protection. Besides, the cops are not responsible for protecting individuals, only the general public and the SCOTUS states that, although most people don’t know it. I stay away from malls, movie theaters, clubs, and any other places where large groups of people congregate as they are prime targets for terrorists and nut cases as they provide a target rich environment. I do visit the mall if I have to, although nowadays shopping on the internet is so much more convenient and one often gets better prices and sometimes free shipping.
I’m usually in condition yellow, but at crowded places, I gravitate more towards condition orange and the old police instincts of 9+ years on the street kick into higher gear than if I’m at a place like Target, Lowes, or Winn-Dixie. Christmas and holidays are times to be extra careful. Fighting and shooting skills are great, but the mindset is more important.
This is a terrible tragedy.
Listening to the news I have some questions.
So the exit door Holmes went out to dress and arm himself was not ALARMED? How is that?
Doesn’t make sense. Any theatre would know if they didn’t alarm those doors that 1 paying patron could let 20 of his buddies in without paying….
Also…Less than 11 hours goes by. The victims bodies are still in the theatre and the police haven’t entered Holmes’ apartment. Yet ABC reports the 4 weapons Holmes had and where he bought them. Also that he had bought 6,000 rounds of ammunition, some from the internet.
HOW did they know he bought ammo from the internet and these particular guns. Does the government have a list we don’t know about or was this just good police work working off a credit card etc.?
Okay…good police work….What purpose does it serve to publish this information? Holmes’ booking photo wasn’t immediately released yet they release the identity of the weapons and number of bullets??? I can’t put my finger on it but something about this bothers me.
Also, what kind of posters and etc are in the apartment? My guess is this college science student was indoctrinated into evolution and atheism. No moral code. We’re just animals. Add Hollywood and today’s everyone look at me culture….and you have a messed up person that becomes a monster. I would bet those items would be more disturbing than how many rounds of ammo he bought.
(But if he was a Tea Party, or Christian or had copies of American Handgunner or Backwoods Home we’d probably be hearing about it.)
I am also disturbed by the number of times the media is describing Holmes as a normal guy. No warning signs, no police record.
I.E. We need gun control because you can’t tell when a “normal” guy might go nuts.
I left California for just such reasons. As a Veteran and upstanding citizen, I feel it is my duty to stand armed and ready to intervene if need be. I took an Oath to protect the Constitution and American Citizens against enemies foreign and domestic. Open carry is fine, but I believe that Concealed Carry is a much stronger deterrent. The so called “Bad Guys” don’t know who’s carrying. But if they keep living the life of a criminal they will eventually find out.
You know, folks, there are other theaters than AMC. Here in AZ, we’ve also got Harkins (who I have not spotted posting the sign… then again they could be posting it very stealthily), which is an AZ-only franchise but a huge movie theater chain.
There’s also other cinema venues here that do not post the “no firearms” sign.
Go to those places in your state which don’t disallow concealed weapons, not the ones which do.
That’s why free-market capitalism is great: when one guy treats his customers like dirt, people can avoid him and give someone else their business for the same service.
An even better option to movie theatres- buy the DVD when it comes out or wait for Netflix.
You can pause the movie to get a drink, and no carry restrictions. 😛
Boycott businesses banning CCW – and they will change their “views” very fast. That’s exactly what happened in North Carolina – where a state gun-rights group put out a boycott list of such merchants.
Roger, thanks for the information on British gun ownership. I watch the occasional British film and assumed from various depictions that there is some ownership of bolt action rifles and shotguns but didn’t know about .22 rimfire ownership.
Is the type of shotgun ammo limited…for instance, can you buy slugs and buckshot? Can you own semiauto shotguns like the Saiga? Are detachable magazines allowed for centerfire rifles? Can you own lever action centerfire rifles that hold more than five rounds? Is there any limit on the amount of ammo that you can purchase or possess? Thanks again.
Posting very, very late to this thread, but the consensus seems here to be that it was all the fault of a sign banning firearms from the cinema, and that in order to prevent such an atrocity happening again the rights of property owners to put up such signs should be restricted.
Unsurprisingly AR-15 wielding mass murderers feel that these signs don’t apply to them.
But personally I feel that there are two elephants in the room and that focusing on the sign is distracting from them. The first elephant is that the perpetrator of this atrocity used legally acquired firearms; and the second is that there was nothing to hinder him in the acquisition of said firearms.
Yes I do agree it would have been great if a legally armed and responsible citizen had brought the murder’s rampage to an abrupt end. But is it possible to take steps to keep firearms out of the hands of those who would abuse them with out taking them out of the hands of those who can use them responsibly?
But if the freedom to own firearms without any sort of control (or only relatively limited control) is considered paramount, are murders such as took place in Aurora the price to pay for this? 🙁
Mas – The term POM, or POME, or pom, or pomme, or pommie, or pommy; was not coined by us Brits, but by Australians and New Zealanders as a derogatory term for Britons/English. Its origins are uncertain, and it may even by a rhyming slang for a British immigrant to Australia – pomegranate.
I don’t know the CNN commentator you reference, but if you describe him as a “priss” I’m happy to take your word for it. I suppose it’s a bit sad that the USA has to import prisses these days, but even if he is an priss, I personally don’t think that making it 100,000 times more difficult for people like James Holmes to get their hands on guns is a bad thing.
Fruitbat, it was my British friends who told me with self-effacing humor that “Pommie” stood for Prisoner of Mother England, and as I noted, I didn’t intend it to be a generic diss.
Given that the Colorado “suspect” had wired his home with explosives and tripwires hoping to kill police, there is little doubt that if he (and millions of good people) had been successfully denied gun ownership, he would have “gone McVeigh” instead of “going Loughner,” and the death toll might even have been greater.
best,
Mas
Mas – Thank you clarifying your remarks.