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Massad Ayoob on Guns

Want to Comment on a blog post? Look for and click on the blue No Comments or # Comments at the end of each post.



Massad Ayoob

REPORT FROM BEHIND ENEMY LINES

Sunday, August 13th, 2017

I recently had the pleasure of teaching another class in New Jersey (or, as some of my colleagues in the gun owners’ civil rights movement elsewhere might put it, behind enemy lines.)  There are few places left in America where the gun laws are more Draconian than they are in the Garden State.

The class had been arranged by my usual host in that state, Anthony Colandro, a tireless fighter for gun owners’ rights.

NJ is a classic example of why egalitarian “shall issue” permitting is so important, and why more than a dozen states now have followed the Vermont Model in which no permit is required to carry a loaded handgun concealed for protection in public.  New Jersey is one of the relatively few remaining states which requires the applicant to show that they customarily carry large amounts of cash, negotiable securities, etc., or have already been attacked or received serious death threats, to have any hope of getting the permit.  This “may issue” policy has, predictably, resulted in a situation where practically speaking, only the rich and influential are likely to get the permit to protect themselves and their families in public.

Not surprisingly, NJ does not recognize carry permits from any other state.  Moreover, the lucky few who do have permits to carry there are forbidden to load with hollow point ammunition, though the state attorney general’s office has supposedly approved expanding bullets with nose caps (Hornady Critical Defense, Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket, Cor-Bon Pow’rBall). Yet another reason to hope for the passage of national reciprocity.

There are a few bright spots. Governor Chris Christie seems to have given up on BS gun control theories and has repeatedly granted relief to innocent people who were licensed to carry and got jammed up because they didn’t realize that, unlike their marriage licenses and drivers’ licenses, their licenses to carry were not recognized in New Jersey.

Fortunately, gun owners’ groups like NJSAFE continue to be voices of reason, with positive activism as manifested here.

As I told my students there, “Pennsylvania accepts refugees!”  That said, though, I admire the determination of those who have decided to stay in New Jersey and fight for their civil rights.  Their mission is a righteous one.

The beautiful South Jersey Shooting Club

The beautiful South Jersey Shooting Club

41 Responses to “REPORT FROM BEHIND ENEMY LINES”

  1. Spencer B. Says:

    It is very sad to say (truthfully) that there are so many places even worse than NJ for sidearm carry internationally! May the Vermont Model spread to the ends of the Earth and beyond.

  2. LarryArnold Says:

    Ten years ago no one would have predicted that even the pro-gun states would join Vermont. Yet today we have half-again as many states with no-license carry (12) as we have with “may-issue” policies (8).

  3. TW Says:

    Mas, how do you get your firearms into NJ to teach these classes? Does your status as an LEO give you clearance? Just wondering.

  4. Paul S Says:

    I try to avoid states like NJ. I is tough though. I finally got my FL driver’s license & hope to sever all ties with RI as soon as the XYL retires. (XYL is radio talk for married lady, as in ex young lady)

    In the mean time, I try to spend as much time as possible in FL, UT NH and the like. (Looking forward to an Elk hunt this October with my son who lives in St. George.

  5. Paul S Says:

    I appreciate and thank those in places like NJ fighting the good fight and wish them well.

  6. Daniel Says:

    As someone who grew up in both New Jersey and California (the only other state that perhaps could top NJ in its draconian gun laws), you have no idea how true all this rings.

    Hapless gun owners flying into Newark Airport with connecting flights, and who have missed their connections and are forced to stay overnight in NJ with their guns; have been arrested for violating state law by NY/NJ Port Authority Police upon trying to check-in the next day and declare their weapon in accordance with TSA regulations (Revell v. Port Authority of NY & NJ, 3rd Circuit, 2010).

    Even though, as a peace officer I am granted LEOSA protection, I choose to voluntarily abstain from carrying my off-duty weapon when I visit NJ. It’s just not worth the risk.

    Hopefully H.R. 38, the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 will be passed into law to protect law-abiding gun owners from both the criminals and the gun-hating politicians.

  7. Sherry Grasso Says:

    Thank you Mr. Ayoob for writing such an honest review of the deplorable and dangerous reality of living in New Jersey. The election of a new governor this year could be devastating if Mr. Murphy wins. He has already said he will restrict our Second Amendment rights even further in collusion with the Democratic legislature. Even though I have various CCW permits from other states, attend as many firearm training classes as I can, am an NRA Instructor and a women’s firearms group chapter leader and want to protect myself and my family, well too bad for me. Many of our hypocritical legislators have a permit to carry in this state, why can’t I? Why can’t you? It’s all about who you know or how much money you want to spend trying to obtain a permit through the court s. Living in this state is absolutely demoralizing, but we can’t give up the fight for our constitutional rights! Sempre Vigilans!

  8. Tionico Says:

    Mas, I could be wrong or out of date, but last I knew Gov CHristie had commuted a few sentences for “violating NJ’s outrageous gun laws) releasing at least one innocent caught up from prison. But to my knowledge he has never granted parton or amnesty. So, while the guys got sprung out of the CrowBar Hotel, they remain felons and thus are permanently disarmed.
    His conduct along these lines soon after taking office is why, when he tossed his hat in the ring to stand for President, I not only could not support him, but I opposed him in print, and with my vote. A man who would deny someone their right to arms under circumstances like this is a man who better not be MY president.

    There is one rat who is very anti-gun who is running to replace Christie, and Ive heard of another man who has a decent history of support for the right to arms. I’d like to see a man like HIM get in. I think, with a basic value like that, he’d also be in favour of some other significant and good changes.

  9. Dennis Says:

    This article probably won’t brighten anyone’s day……

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/13/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-mum-on-national-reciprocity-for-concealed-carry/

  10. Brother Geezer Says:

    How does D.C. Circuit court’s Grace v. District of Columbia affect NJ’s requirement to “show cause” for CCW license. I have applied for a non-resident in Maryland, which is as bad as NJ. Any hope?

  11. John Says:

    According to NJ.com Christie has pardoned 14 individuals for violating NJ’s draconian gun laws. Brian Aitken is an example where a sentence was commuted rather than pardoned, likely because that is what he had asked for at the time. He was still hoping to be vindicated in the courts, and he eventually was, with the exception of his conviction on hollow point possession.

  12. Frank McClelland Says:

    Mas, keep up the good work!

  13. TN_MAN Says:

    States like New Jersey, New York, California, etc. exemplify the left-wing mindset on Prohibition Movements.

    The pattern is the same as with the Prohibition of Alcohol a century ago. For one thing, notice that no amount of Prohibition is every enough. The Alcohol Prohibitionists began by getting local counties to go “Dry”. Then they moved on the making entire States go dry. Finally, they push though a constitutional amendment that made the entire United States go dry. There was even an international movement to make the entire world go dry. No halfway limitation on the consumption of alcohol was ever enough. They were never satisfied at intermediate levels because the results they promised never materialized at these levels. So, the standard response was always give us more, more, more, more,… They kept promising that with enough Prohibition, it WOULD WORK.

    Of course, it never did work and the people finally had enough and put a stop to the madness. The constitutional amendment was repealed as was Prohibition itself. The resulting failure also gave a “death blow” to the international movement for Prohibition.

    Gun Grabbers will hotly deny that there is any connection between the old movement for the Prohibition of Alcohol and the current movement for the Prohibition of Firearms. However, the parallels are obvious to those who will open their eyes and look with unbiased intelligence. The gun control movement also does the bottom up approach with local ordinances and State laws designed to make local counties and even entire States go “dry” of firearms. When this does not produce results, as in Chicago, they fall back on the claim that it simply is not enough to produce results. Their constant cry, as with the Alcohol Prohibitionists, is give us more, more, more…

    Notice how that, even draconian States (like New Jersey) are not satisfied. Even in New Jersey, which has a full plate of restrictive measures, the cry is for more, more, more. New restrictive measures are proposed in each legislative session.

    Likewise, the gun grabbers dream of constitutional amendments (repeal of the 2nd Amendment) and international treaties that will make the whole world go “dry” of firearms.

    Even the arguments used by the gun grabbers parallel those used, a century ago, by the alcohol prohibitionists.

    Therefore, to claim that the gun control movement is COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the old Prohibition of Alcohol movement is so ridiculous as to be laughable.

    Yes, the left-wing ideology of Prohibition persists. The left simply switched their sights from alcohol to firearms (forgive the pun). To quote George Santayana: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

  14. John Mohan Says:

    We have a Republican majority in both houses of Congress and a pro gun President who would sign a National CCW Reciprocity Bill without hesitation. So what the heck is going on?!?! It’s now or never. Everyone who reads this, PLEASE contact your congressmen right now. Don’t procrastinate. This is especially important if you have Republican or even a moderate Democrats representing you. Let’s get this done.

  15. Roger Willco Says:

    Mas,

    Thanks for bringing light to bear on a dark, ignorant area of America. If NJ ignores the Bill of Rights, is it really part of America? The blue states are already communist-controlled territory. They are trying to conquer America without firing a shot.

    I live here and grudgingly put up with NJ’s rules. Since so many people live here, there really are some good, knowledgeable, talented people. It’s a shame we are denied our rights.

    Try to avoid NJ. If you must drive through, obey the traffic laws. If you get stopped, do not volunteer any information about guns. Just keep your hands on the steering wheel, and you will be asked for driver’s license, registration and insurance cards. Be respectful. A traffic stop is just a traffic stop.

    When we drive to the range, we keep our guns locked in the trunk, and our ammo is locked in a separate container, like a military ammo box. We obey the speed limit.

    I have more to say, but I’m not going to do it on the Internet. The way for NJ gun owners to feel thankful is to be glad we don’t live in the United Kingdom.

  16. Mitch Gurowitz Says:

    Sorry to be considered “behind enemy lines” I’m very thankful for people like Anthony C. Who actually cares about the rights of NJ residents. I appreciate that Anthony didn’t flee for the greener pastures of PA.

  17. Dennis Says:

    This may be an off thread comment, but once again, a bunch of low bred idiots representing a repugnant ideology, abused open carry in a protest, giving the enemies of the second amendment probably enough fodder to kill national reciprocity any time soon. Many of this scum crossed state lines with their guns in order to participate in this display stupidity.

    I fully expect the media to start chasing down these so called “white nationalists”/”white supremacists” for interviews and asking their stance on the second amendment. It ain’t a good day for responsible gun owners.

  18. Don - Pa Says:

    Everyone who reads this blog should heed John Mohan’s admonition above. Contact your legislators – often. I only add one thing: I have worked in legislator’s offices in the past and the communications that actually get their attention are SNAIL MAIL OLDIES. Do NOT email – they very seldom even look at those. The handwritten letters (yes, I know – crazy, isn’t it?) get the looks. So, the message is: Get your pen and paper and stamps out – and write. Be respectful, but don’t back down on your core beliefs. What? You’re still here?

  19. TN_MAN Says:

    It is off-topic but I wonder what the commentators of this blog think about the current frenzy to destroy any trace of the Old Confederacy in this country. One sees confederate statues and monuments destroyed daily. Indeed, the radicals in the Left and in the mainstream media are even gearing up to go after the Founding Fathers (like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson) next.

    It strikes me as a clear example of the extremism of the Left in today’s America. One always sees this kind of thing happening when extremists gain power. They try to re-write history and smash anything old that does not fit their current ideology. Reference the actions of the Taliban when they destroyed the Buddha Statues at Bamyan in March 2001.

    It is part of the cultural war being waged by the Left in America today. The effort to shut down opposing speech, shut down opposing thought, shut down opposing ideas. The attacks against the 2nd Amendment and against the honest gun-owners of American are simply another front in this culture war.

    The Left in America is taking a page from Orwell’s novel 1984. They have adopted the slogan of the Ministry of Truth: “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”

    The extreme Leftists in America are trying to control the past so that they can control the future. That is why all the old confederate monuments must go. It is all political and ideological. It has nothing (whatsoever) to do with racism. Racism is just the justification for their extremist actions.

  20. Dennis Says:

    TN-MAN, after the “spontaneous” destruction of confederate statues in some cities by angry crowds and the late night decision by Baltimore city leaders to outlaw those monuments in their city and having city workers remove them before the next morning remind you of anything? The German Kristallnacht entered my thoughts.

    Anti-fa? Yeah, right. With the media and so many politicians stirring this pot, I don’t see a pretty outcome.

  21. Roger Willco Says:

    Don – Pa,

    I hope what you say about contacting politicians with snail mail is still true. I always contact politicians that way. I hand write (print, not cursive) on quality paper. Sometimes I don’t even fold it, but mail it in a 9″ X 12″ manila envelope. I do get responses. I have even contacted Prince Harry in the UK, hoping he would take up the gun cause the way his Father took up architecture. Twice I got answers, probably from Prince Harry’s secretary, in two weeks. Most impressive! Remember, I am not a citizen (or subject) of the UK, and I still got a prompt, written answer twice.

    I am low-tech, and remember the good old 1990s. In those days you could apply for a job in person, or by mail, or by phone, or online. Now if you walk in to a company, they tell you to go to their website and apply.

    I often want to contact well-known people by e-mail. E-mail is so old-fashioned I can’t even find e-mail addresses for many political celebrities. I don’t do facebook, so I am out-of-it. We used to have a variety of ways to contact people, but technology is a tyrant, and forces us all into the Matrix!

    TN_MAN,

    I am against removing Confederate statues, but I can see how the connection to slavery is most distasteful to some people. I consider it a small matter, and will put up with the removal of those statues. To remove statues of the Founding Fathers is more serious, akin to burning the flag. I guess I would say, “If you don’t love America, then leave it!”

    If I had more money and free time, I would like to burn or hang an effigy of Karl Marx, or some other Leftist hero. Maybe it would be good to burn Che Guevara in effigy, or maybe George Soros, or Charles Darwin. Many people don’t realize it, but Hitler believed he was trying to speed up Evolution. The master races would eventually supplant the inferior races in time. Hitler wanted to see it happen during his lifetime. So, in a sense, WWII was fought over Evolution.

    The direction this country is headed is downhill. We should probably have a peaceful separation, before we have another civil war. The Left can have the blue states, and the Right can have the red states. Too bad the Left didn’t move to Venezuela, the socialist paradise.

  22. TN_MAN Says:

    @ Don -Pa:

    “I consider it a small matter, and will put up with the removal of those statues.”

    I must, respectfully, disagree with your view. Those on the Left never give up. They cannot be appeased. The more that they get away with; the more they are encouraged to take the next step. You can no more appease the American Left then Prime Minister Chamberlain could appease Adolf Hitler prior to WW II.

    If they get away with passing one “common-sense gun safety law” then it only encourages them to become even more radical in their their next gun control demand. If they get away with removing any trace of the old confederacy (which, like it or not, it is part of American History) they they will only be encouraged to re-write history more radically to fit the leftist ideology.

    I am reminded of the parable of the frog floating in the pot of water with the heat being turned up slowly. The frog may be thinking that the temperature is only changing at a snail’s pace. No doubt, the frog considers it to be a small matter. However, in the end, the frog is boiled to death.

    The Left is boiling America to death one degree at a time.

    Your comment about peaceful separation is also interesting. It is the theme of Kurt Schlichter’s novel “People’s Republic”. He sets his novel about 20 years into the future after such a “separation” has occurred. You might want to try this novel. It is certainly entertaining reading! 🙂

  23. TN_MAN Says:

    Correction about my previous comment. I meant it to address Roger Willco’s comment, not the one by Don – PA.

  24. Dave (the Liberal, non-Uncle one) Says:

    Can anyone point me to any actual evidence that there is actually any movement to seek the removal of any monuments other than Confederate ones? I hear this thrown about by people like Trump as a “what’s next” accusation, but hear nothing about any actual effort to do it. Perhaps it’s out there, but I’ve not seen it.

  25. Dave (the Liberal, non-Uncle one) Says:

    And, by the way, this removal-of-Confederate-statues-denies-history stuff is nonsense.

    We don’t seem to need a lot of statues of King George or his generals to remember the Revolutionary War. We don’t seem to need statues of Santa Anna or his generals to remind us of the Texas Revolution in 1836. We don’t seem to need statues of Kaiser Wilhelm or his generals to avoid denial of the history of WWI. Should we put up statues of Hitler, Hirohito, or Mussolini or their generals to remind us of WWII? How about statues of Osama Bin Laden or his airplane hijackers to avoid denial of the history of 9/11?

    No? So why do we need statues of Confederate leaders or generals to remind us of the Civil War?

  26. TN_MAN Says:

    @ Liberal Dave:

    “So why do we need statues of Confederate leaders or generals to remind us of the Civil War?”

    Your question contains its own answer – because it was a CIVIL WAR.

    King George was not an American. Santa Anna was not an American. Nor were Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini or Osama Bin Laden.

    Robert E. Lee WAS an American. He was born as an American and he died as an American.

    I might add that, if the American Left desires to spark a second American Civil War, then they are on the EXACT correct path to start one.

  27. Dennis Says:

    Liberal Dave,

    https://www.change.org/p/the-university-of-missouri-remove-the-statue-of-thomas-jefferson-from-campus

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/08/17/hamilton-star-leslie-odom-jr-open-taking-statues-washington-jefferson/

    http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/08/18/angela-rye-statues-washington-jefferson-lee-come-down-sot-ath.cnn

    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/culture/la-et-cm-thomas-jefferson-confederate-statues-20150624-story.html

    http://www.newsweek.com/should-we-tear-down-statues-slave-owning-presidents-651738

    You tell us. Is their not a movement to tear down the statues of the Founding Fathers? I can keep going with the list of people espousing this. Now, which came first, the movement or Trump’s alluding to it?

    Question for you. What are we going to call our capitol when the dust settles? Columbus was a slave trader. How many cities, states, businesses are named for slave owners? Are we going to rename everything connected to a part of history if it’s offensive to whoever makes the loudest noise/puts up the biggest fight? Isn’t that akin to anarchy?

  28. Dennis Says:

    Liberal Dave, would you be ok with tearing down all monuments of FDR? After all, he turned away a boat load of Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler’s Germany. If the answer is no, do you run the risk of being called a anti-Jew white supremacist?

  29. TN_MAN Says:

    @ Liberal Dave:

    “Can anyone point me to any actual evidence that there is actually any movement to seek the removal of any monuments other than Confederate ones?”

    As the link below illustrates, there is some fire under this smoke.

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/jackson-washington-park-protest-presidents-slave-owners/

  30. Dennis Says:

    Liberal Dave, why do you need your reenactment group? Should the opposing forces wear generic uniforms carrying generic battle flags and non-period weaponry? Do you have an inner need to prove over and over the fact that, due to your heritage, you must separate yourself from a geographical assumption of bigotry, by faux fighting for the Union against the Confederacy?

    At what point will the sins of the father (great-great-great-grandfathers) stop being visited upon the sons? By erasing history and lessening the repetition of it?

  31. Dennis Says:

    Liberal Dave, embedded in the first link I posted above concerning your doubts of any “movements to remove statues other the Confederate is this link posted April 4, 2016.

    http://maxwelllittlehighereducation.weebly.com/opinion/why-thomasjeffersonmustfall-at-the-university-of-missouri-my-panel-statement-on-april-4th-hosted-by-the-kinder-institute-on-constitutional-democracy-at-the-university-of-missouri-columbia

    More than a year prior to Trump’s expression of concern and over nine month prior to his taking office.

    You might need to spend a little more time keeping up with stated goals of your fellow progressives. Still friends.

  32. Roger Willco Says:

    TN_MAN,

    Thanks, I got your message. Our off-topic thread was inspired by Don-Pa, but yeah, I wrote that sentence.

    The question for me is, “When do I fight?” Do I go stand in front of a confederate statue and try to keep radicals from bringing it down? Do I bring my guns to help me defend those statues? What am I willing to fight and die for? At this point in time, the only event I can see which would trigger me to grab my guns and fight would be the confiscation, or even the registration of non-criminals’ guns. I probably wouldn’t even fight if they try to register my guns, I would simply not comply. I won’t fight if we get government healthcare, I won’t fight over taxes. There really isn’t much I and others are willing to fight for, so yes, the liberals continue to chalk up victories.

    As for political fighting versus physical violence, our side doesn’t seem to be very enthusiastic about pushing the agenda the Republican voters voted for. Republican politicians have all three branches of government, but they are moving slowly, or in the case of the RINOs, they are actually obstructing the will of the voters.

    Obviously, this is a topic for another time. I will take a look at Kurt Schlichter’s “People’s Republic.” Thank you.

    Liberal Dave:

    I think you make a good argument. No statues of King George III to help us remember history, et cetera.

    You know what? Maybe diversity isn’t that great. How can we have one set of laws to govern Americans who revere the Constitution, Americans who revere the writings of Karl Marx, Muslims who want to be ruled by Sharia Law, and all the other political groups out there? Maybe separation would be better than fighting about every issue. Maybe compromise means no one is happy with what they get.

    After the Constitutional Convention, a lady asked Ben Franklin what kind of government we now have. He replied, “A republic, Madam, if you can keep it.”

  33. TN_MAN Says:

    @ Dennis,

    “would you be ok with tearing down all monuments of FDR? After all, he turned away a boat load of Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler’s Germany.”

    You might also add that FDR was a U.S. President that specifically targeted a racial group for internment in concentration camps. During WW II, he authorized the arrest and internment of Japanese-Americans (including native-born Americans). They were rounded up from their homes and jobs and sent to the camps. Where are the calls of “racism” for that?

    No, FDR will never be accused of being a racist nor will his monuments be torn down by the Left. That is because FDR was a Leftist himself. As such, he is given automatic immunity from such accusations. Such name-calling and abuse is reserved ONLY for those deemed to be on the Political Right in today’s America, don’t you know?

    Such is the double-standard contrived and implemented by the Left nowadays. The self-righteous Left-wingers cloak themselves in moral authority and set themselves up as the moral judges of the world, by means of their mainstream media tools, but their double-standards rob them of any such authority in the anyone else’s eyes. I think that a large segment of the American People see through their self-righteous and pretentious BS. That is one reason that they keep losing elections despite doing everything in their power to “rig the vote” in their favor and despite have their media lapdogs flood the airways with their propaganda during each campaign.

  34. TN_MAN Says:

    @ Roger Willco”

    “I will take a look at Kurt Schlichter’s ‘People’s Republic.’ Thank you.”

    Yes, I think that most of the readers of this blog will find this to be an entertaining novel. However, that is excepting our friend, Liberal Dave.

    I would wager that, if Liberal Dave undertook to read this novel, he would not get even halfway through it before flinging it angrily down and declaring that he was not going to read another word of this dribble!

    I can think of no higher recommendation of this novel. 🙂

  35. Dennis Says:

    Chicago is a democrat controlled city led by Rahm Emanuel (God is with us) as mayor and icon of the liberal/progressive/socialist movement. He and his fellow socialist comrades are at a loss trying to deal with the high murder rate other than to restrict gun ownership.

    Fact: 96% of murder convictions in Chicago in 2011 were of minority offenders (71.3% by black offenders, 24.6% by hispanic offenders, 3.5% white offenders, 0.6% others). Of 171 murder convictions, 6 were white, 122 African-American, 42 Hispanic, and 1 “other race”
    http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/chicago-75-murdered-are-black-71-murderers-are-black

    When Mayor Emanuel screams control, is it not reminiscent of post civil war democrats in the south demanding no gun rights for blacks? Does he and his “progressive” movement see minorities as unable to control their more primal instincts, and can only be controlled by denying them some basic rights? At the same time depriving those law abiding folks (minority or otherwise) that don’t live in the big plantation house on the hill, with elaborate security in place, a means to protect themselves.

    One has to wonder if the mayor doesn’t have a white pointy hood costume in his closet (along with a copy of “Mein Kampf”). Nah. Can’t be. He is a champion for minorities.

  36. Dave (the Liberal, non-Uncle one) Says:

    Two issues:

    First, re evidence of a movement to take down statues other than Confederate ones. I stand enlightened, but only somewhat. I asked for evidence of a “movement” but what I received back was a collection of articles about _individuals_ urging or having the opinion that they ought to be removed. And, actually, some of even them did not say that they should be removed, but only that it’s an issue worth eventually talking about. What I did not see in those articles was any evidence of an actual mass movement to do so. I grant you that a movement has to start with individuals, but the fact that the Change.org petition focusing on the University of Missouri only has 165 signers after having been posted for 2 years speaks volumes (especially if you take into account that Mizzou has over 33,000 students and that even non-students can sign the petition on the Internet). I daresay that if you look hard enough you can find a number of individuals who believe that all Americans should be required to wear Star Trek uniforms, flag lapel pins, or cummerbunds. That does not mean that there is actually a movement to require us to do any of those things. Incidentally, the Newsweek article found by Dennis corresponds fairly well with my position on this matter.

    Second, the best argument against my King George, Santa Anna, etc., argument was TN_MAN’s who said, “King George was not an American. Santa Anna was not an American. Nor were Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini or Osama Bin Laden. Robert E. Lee WAS an American.” (It’s not a very good argument, but it was the best one made here. See the Newsweek article for one good response to his argument, which can be summed up this way, “So Germany needs statutes of Himmler, Göring, and Hitler to remind them of WWII?” See the article for a better explanation.) But taking the argument that they were Americans, TN is absolutely right, Robert E. Lee was an American: An American traitor who led a substantial part of the US in armed rebellion against its lawful government to pursue a claim of states rights, the principal goal of those claimed states rights being the preservation and expansion of slavery. If we need to keep up the Confederate memorials to remind us of our history, we also need to put up memorials to Benedict Arnold, Julius and Ethyl Rosenberg, Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen, and John Walker Jr..

    Third, Dennis’ reference to my history as a Civil War reenactor. He said: “why do you need your reenactment group? … Do you have an inner need to prove over and over the fact that, due to your heritage, you must separate yourself from a geographical assumption of bigotry, by faux fighting for the Union against the Confederacy?” I have to begin by saying that I must not need it very much since I’ve not done it in 30+ years, and next, that while I did, in fact, mainly do Union impressions, I also did Confederate ones and owned both uniforms. In general, I’ve come to have considerable doubt about the ongoing benefit of a great deal of reenactment activity. Though they often offer themselves to public, historical venues (and are often turned down because the venues do not have much control over what goes on, raising both reputational and liability concerns), the actual fact is that a great deal of reenactment is mainly for the pleasure and benefit of the participants and has no substantial historical value which actually adds much of real benefit to the average viewer’s knowledge about the Civil War. Moreover, here in what was the actual Confederacy my experience was that many — I will not say all or even most, but many — who participated on the Confederate side in reenactments did so not out of love for history but for a longing for continuation and glorification of The Lost Cause. As such, I’ve come to doubt the degree to which I can approve many of the events and, in fact, have come to question some of my own participation in it in the past. They do not, of course, require my approval and since it is a private activity there is a strong free speech element involved if they choose to continue it.

  37. Dave (the Liberal, non-Uncle one) Says:

    I started my last post with “Two issues:” and then put in three. I’m not supposed to tell y’all this, but yes, that’s actually a secret liberal plot sent to me by my contacts in the Deep State to create Fake News to confuse the right.

  38. Dennis Says:

    Liberal Dave, I don’t know if it qualifies as a movement in your eyes or not, but as SEIU in the past, Black Lives Matter and Anti-Fa now, every liberal/progressive cause seems to attract instant response and protests from them. A mobile fast response army, if you will. On this subject, first the Confederate battle flag, then any state flag that incorporated that flag into theirs, then Confederate statues, and now as you call “a suggestion” by some concerning founding fathers who were slave holders. I’ll take that bet that the enforcement wing of the alt-left will take those suggestions to heart. Coming to a city near you.

    By the way, this link from the L.A. Times I posted earlier, was dated June 24,2015, two years ago after the Charlotte church shooting, Jefferson’s name was included in the conversation about the movement to take down statues. Appears it was part of this discussion from the beginning.

    I hope this hatred ends before folks start choosing sides, …….again. Anyone looking forward to a repeat of history is dangerous.

  39. TN_MAN Says:

    To summarize the arguments made by the Left and repeated by Liberal Dave here, the Confederacy was nothing more than a bunch of racist traitors to the United States. The American Left, acting from its position of supreme moral authority and righteousness, has determined that the confederate leadership and, indeed, anyone who supported the confederacy in any fashion are utterly contemptable and unworthy of being memorialized in any fashion. That long-standing memorials, built to them decades ago, are relics of an unworthy and racist past. They have no place in the progressive utopia that the Left is trying to build in America today. Therefore, the Left is not only justified but morally required to use the tool of public protest and to activate its legion of friends in the mainstream media to agitate until all confederate markers, statues and memorials are utterly destroyed and removed from any public place in the United States of America.

    I am not sure exactly who, on the Left, issued this Fatwa against the confederacy but I find the timing of it suspicious.

    It is interesting to note that, when General Lee surrendered to General Grant, at Appomattox Court House, in April of 1865, the terms offered to General Lee were not harsh. Wikipedia notes that:

    “The terms were as generous as Lee could hope for; his men would not be imprisoned or prosecuted for treason. Officers were allowed to keep their sidearms. In addition to his terms, Grant also allowed the defeated men to take home their horses and mules to carry out the spring planting and provided Lee with a supply of food rations for his starving army; Lee said it would have a very happy effect among the men and do much toward reconciling the country.”

    In addition, President Johnson moved fast to also help heal the country. He issued a full pardon and restoration of civil rights, to those involved with the Confederacy, on Christmas Day of 1868. The text of this pardon can be read here:

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=72360

    I find it supremely ironic that the people who actually suffered through the pain and bloodshed of the Civil War were clearly far more forgiving then those on the American Left who are making themselves judge, jury and executioner over people who have been dead for decades and over events that concluded more than 150 years ago.

    Why the rush to judgment now? Did someone on the Left suddenly crack open a history book and is just now learning of the events of the Civil War? Given the education system that the Leftists have built in 21st Century America, I (sadly) cannot rule this theory out! 🙂

    However, I think it more likely that the conclusion from my first comment on this topic (above) is correct. The destruction of the Confederate monuments has nothing (whatsoever) to do with racism. Rather, it is an issue that is being exploited by the Left for political gain. It is being used to deliberately build chaos.

    In the Game of Thornes TV series, there is a weasel character nicknamed “Littlefinger”. One of Littlefinger’s main methods of operation is to deliberately provoke chaos which he then exploits. His motto is “Chaos is a Ladder”.

    Like Littlefinger, the Left is deliberately provoking chaos in America. Agitating for the destruction of the confederate monuments is simply one more method (like protesting the Police over every shooting whether it was justified or not) to create chaos.

    The Left wants to use chaos as a ladder to climb back into the Whitehouse. That is what this is all about and it is the ONLY thing that it is about.

  40. Wendell Newman Says:

    Mr. Ayoob. Thank you! Thank you. I find voices of truth, rare these days. I am over sixty years old. Just as I read of the lady that was cursed at and, abused for holding our nations flag. She said she was tired, discouraged of the chaos. I felt the same way, though she is just a little older than I. She had no weapon of any kind. Did not curse, or instigate conflict or fighting. I did comment that I thank her for her courage, I wished I could have been with her to defend her. Just as she had no purpose to riot, injury or bully she wanted to up hold the fundamentals of American standards.
    I just want to let you know I subscribe to your blog and website. I found hope in reading that advice and wisdom is not dead.
    When I was a little younger I become a member of the NRA, took classes earned my concealed carry permit. I had a few revolvers, semi

  41. Wendell Newman Says:

    automatic hand guns. Not expensive, or custom done. Though I was as tickled as a boy with learning to ride his first bicycle without training wheels.
    Life is like a card game we have to play the hand we’re dealt. I am not bitter or think I’m entitled to what I want or my neighbor has. Do to decisions, and what was for my wife and family I had to sell all. I still have my conceal carry permit though I do not know how much longer when I am required to renew it.
    Yes I am fearful now, I do not go out unless I have to. Try to keep the long suffering wife close by and out of danger. The stores of Clint Walker, Col. Jeff Cooper. Stores of men that they learned from and respected. Sorry I didn’t mean to rattle on so long. Any thing from hearing about old shotguns to 22 rifles or hand guns to the higher caliber weapons still excites me!
    I thank you for your service (military) Putting your life in harms way as and law enforcement officer. Give your wife, (The Evil Princess) a hug for share your lives and traveling so much for the sake of Americans and those who may not be blessed as we are. Forgive my poor grammar, writing it is not the fault of my school teachers, parents.
    As I heard so many times in bootcamp. “Results not excuses!”
    Make your bed you have to lay in it.
    America is still a good country, even if it’s discombobulated.

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