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Massad Ayoob on Guns

Want to Comment on a blog post? Look for and click on the blue No Comments or # Comments at the end of each post.



Massad Ayoob

POOP ON GROUPON

Thursday, January 24th, 2013

The Internet “daily deal site” Groupon traffics in big discounts for classes, steak dinners, and a broad variety of products and services. Not being much of an Internet denizen, I’ve never used them, though my significant other is one of their regulars.   No more, though; she just swore them off in anger after Groupon announced they’ll have nothing to do with the gun industry or firearms instructors any longer.  Many gun owners are doing the same, and making it known to the company.

When gun people get spit on, they express their displeasure appropriately.  In state after state, when the concealed carry permit reform bills known as “shall issue” were passed, and carrying a gun became the right of all law-abiding citizens instead of the sole province of the wealthy, “connected” elite, we saw the same pattern again and again.  Stores and restaurants would put up “no guns” signs. Gun owners would withdraw their patronage, and politely let management know why.  Soon, in most cases, the “no guns” signs disappeared.

Panic, emotion, symbolism and elitism drive the anti-gun movement.  Logic is the strongest weapon on the pro-gun side.  We vote with our dollars as well as our ballots.  A major East Coast outdoor sports exhibition allowed itself to be caught up in the current hysteria and decided it would be politically correct to ban modern sporting rifles from display there.  The industry has answered: multiple major sponsors have withdrawn their financial support.

For a healthy dose of the logic that is the engine of the pro-gun argument, check out a regular source of that no longer common commodity, Thomas Sowell, here: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-on-the-right/012213-641461-gun-control-debate-governed-by-emotion-not-facts.htm#ixzz2IoYrp942 .

36 Responses to “POOP ON GROUPON”

  1. wg Says:

    The left lives by the personal is political. Unfortunately, their overreach is leading me to the same conclusion–I avoid companies that stigmatize gun owners and support those that do. I do the same with media, movies, and music because I am tired of subsidizing those who seek to affect my rights.

  2. WT Says:

    Two interesting articles to read on gun free zones and gun control:

    The first is:

    HARVARD JOURNAL OF LAW & PUBLIC POLICY [VOL. 30] (2006)

    WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

    From Introduction:

    “International evidence and comparisons have long been offered
    as proof of the mantra that more guns mean more deaths and that
    fewer guns, therefore, mean fewer deaths. Unfortunately, such
    discussions are all too often been afflicted by misconceptions and
    factual error and focus on comparisons that are unrepresentative.
    It may be useful to begin with a few examples. There is a compound
    assertion that (a) guns are uniquely available in the United
    States compared with other modern developed nations, which is
    why (b) the United States has by far the highest murder rate.
    Though these assertions have been endlessly repeated, statement
    (b) is, in fact, false and statement (a) is substantially so.”

    And the second is:

    CONNECTICUT LAW REVIEW DECEMBER 2009.

    SCHOOL “GUN FREE” ZONES.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/30546045/Pretend-Gun-Free-School-Zones-A-Deadly-Legal-Fiction

    From Introduction:

    “… This Article does not argue in favor of one particular method for authorizing already-licensed people to carry firearms on campus. On the one hand there is Utah law, which allows firearms carrying and possession by anyone with a concealed handgun carry permit–including in dormitories for students aged twenty-one or over. On the other hand, there was the Nevada Board of Regents proposal to allow carry only by full-time staff who have undergone the same training as deputy sheriffs,and who have actually been deputized. There are many options inbetween the Utah and Nevada models. This Article suggests that complete prohibition of armed defense on school campuses by all faculty and by all adult students is irrational and deadly.”

  3. Tom Says:

    Couldn’t agree with you more, have noticed that the Safeway stores here in CA are beginning to stop any carrying any gun magazines in a lot of their stores.

    I will shop elsewhere.

  4. Lyle H. Says:

    In Canada, we just had a similar major hit too… The Canadian Cable Company SHAW along with Canada’s TV Station “GLOBAL” (as of Dec 31, 2012) has cancelled every single Hunting and Fishing television program.

    This was after an anti-gun /animal rights activist organization based in Vancouver put the Hunting & Fishing community into it’s cross-hairs. Their claim is that guns are well, just plain evil and the act of Hunting & Fishing is of course barbaric and nothing more than “cruelty to animals.” (???)…

    The Liberals are going non-stop around the Globe to completely smash anything to do with; self-preservation skills, personal rights to safety, and anything to do with a persons overall freedom (if it doesn’t jive with their view). One really must question the concepts and long-term strategy of these loopy people. To a everyday country boy like me, I am floored at the stupidity of these Liberals. Heaven help our children if these folks keep this anti-gun foolishness up.

    http://outdoorcanada.ca/23771/blogs/field-findings/global-tvs-plan-to-ban-hunting-shows-has-the-outdoors-community-up-in-arms

  5. Randy Says:

    Jeri Bonavia has it all wrong. At. the end of her rant she says,” we want a decent and civil society.” An armed society is the only civil society. At least until the second coming.

  6. AaronW Says:

    Mas,

    Great article. BTW, there’s another reason to not use Groupon – a LOT of merchants regret getting involved with it, since it’s a margin-killer.

  7. Dave Says:

    I have shown my support by purchasing a product from one of the small vendors that is supporting ME by withdrawing from the show. I wasn’t in the market for a knife, but knives are good to have – so I ordered one from Virginia Blades.

    I hope others will show their support for the small companies that are standing strong for all of US.

  8. Dan Says:

    I have a valid Groupon for an Indoor Range Trip – looks like I need to use it up soon, because then I will cancel my account with them.

  9. Gordon Says:

    Took a little to find the contact for Groupon in order to send a message, rather than just click the ‘remove my email’ option. I wanted to make sure that they know my reason.

  10. Jacob Morgan Says:

    Sowell hit it of the park as usual. When he was in the Marines he was a pistol instructor, by the way. An Ivy Leauge scholar who can shoot expert with a 1911, holy cow.

    If it took over 70 rounds from several highly trained FBI agents to stop Platt and Matix in the 1986 Miami shoot out, then we all “need” 3 30 round magazines, should a future Platt and Matix decide one’s house needs to be invaded.

  11. Doc Martin Says:

    I live a couple miles from the RMEF, one of the show pull-outs, and its a hot topic here.

    The question is whether the RMEF has gone beyond its non-profit mandate, and is pursuing causes beyond the wishes of its donors. The gun industries are,a no-brainier, but environmental organizations like the RMEF are a different story. There is even polarization within “assault” weapons owners around here as whether the RMEFs participation in this cause is appropriate.

    Lots of fireworks ahead.

  12. Matt, another Says:

    I had not heard of Groupon until this event. In light of their ban, I shall continue my boycott of ther services, whatever they are.

  13. Jaji Says:

    The difference between liberals and the rest of us: WE vote with our own dollars!

  14. Ben Branam Says:

    I sent them an email and said I was considering their service to use as a business but then saw how they treated other businesses and decided I would no longer consider or doing any business with them.

  15. Patrick Says:

    Chase Banks’ Intuit Merchant Services Bans Nordic Components Credit Card Processing

    The following appears on Nordic Components retail website:

    NOTICE: We are unable to process credit card transactions at this time. Intuit Merchant Services [link added] has told us that they will NOT process anymore transactions and may put a freeze our accounts because we sell firearms related products. I was told that they are backed by Chase Banks. DO NOT conduct business with these financial institutions if you care about the Constitution of the United States, the Second Amendment or your RIGHTS as a firearms owner. We, as firearms owners, are under attack. I wonder how many of these anti-gun banks received Bail-out money from the current administration?

    We are working on getting set up with a firearm friendly processor and hope to be back on line to serve you quickly. Thank You for understanding.

  16. Mas Says:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/new-gun-law-rushed-wrong-article-1.1245182 Good piece in the New York Daily News.

  17. Matt in Tampa Says:

    My wife has occasionally used a Groupon discount (most recently for a year’s subscription to our local newspaper). She will be sending them an email explaining why she’s not going to be participating in their service any longer.

    America is very much ‘all about money’ these days, and voting with your wallet generates results when common sense and logic fall on deaf ears.

    I’ll be checking out the Virginia Blades website shortly. If they have something I can use, I’ll support them with a purchase, and my thanks.

  18. Sian Says:

    Is there a list of businesses withdrawing from Reed’s? I would love to give them preferential business.

  19. Long Island Mike Says:

    Reed Exhibitions cancelled this years show in Harrisburg PA. I read their press release and I think they still don’t get it. It is almost like they are blaming everyone else except THEMSELVES for a stupid decision. Long ago I learned in business that the customer is ALWAYS RIGHT. Reed has yet learn this lesson.

    http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/prnewswire/press_releases/Pennsylvania/2013/01/24/NY47856

  20. mike Says:

    “modern sporting rifles”….

    I’m starting to see that term more frequently.

    Good use of terminology!

    Mike

  21. Charles Edenfield Says:

    Decided to fight with MY pocketbook. Ordered a knife from Virginia Blade for their courage. Don’t really need another knife, but will help a brother.

  22. Captain Bob Says:

    Funny how in previous years our defensive rifles and accessories were welcomed at their “hunting anf fishing” show. They are idiots that shot themselves in the foot and either don;t have a clue or just wonlt admit it.
    Mas, can you somehow compile a list of the companies that pulled out before the show was cancelled? We, as a firearms rights community, need to support them with business if we can.

  23. Sam Linder Says:

    I have removed myself from Groupon’s mailing list and sent them an email specifying that I would no longer do business with them due to their anti-gun stance. Hopefully, many, many more law-abiding gun owners will follow suit so that the ding-dongs at Groupon get the message loud and clear.

  24. George Says:

    The real irony about Groupon no longer offering firearms-related Groupons? Most were for discounts on firearms safety classes.

    Note: The firearms safety classes were real ones, not ones offered by the anti-gun crowd that now calls themselves experts on “Firearms Safety”.

  25. Gene Smith Says:

    The East Sports & Outdoors Show you spoke of announced today the show has been postponed….. You should go,read the lame excuse they have poed……. Hats off to all the manufacturers and vendors who pulled out in support of the firearms community!

  26. Jim Willis-Live Oak FL Says:

    Another kneejerk reaction by a brainwashed following of a misguided,
    liberal, left-wing, socialist,anti-American ideaology of present-day
    White House administration! —-

    I call them the; Obummer Zombies !!
    Does the term, ” Manchurian Candidate,” sound familiar?

    Yes, I’m that old! I remember a time when it was polititally correct
    to use common sence to solve both common and unusual problems.
    Rrlying on facts, knowlege, experience, and education to make sound
    decisions, instead of, fear, intimidation, bullying, egos and dictatorship.

    I wish that I could purchase, at least one item, from each of the venders
    that withdraws from Reeds, to help them out.

    In my opinion, these venders who pull out of Reeds, are as courageous
    as our military defenders of America, both past, present, and future!

    God bless this Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave!

  27. Hanza Says:

    I just cancelled receiving offers from groupon, and I sent them an email telling them it was because they no longer would allow offers dealing with firearms.

  28. Bill Hoppe Says:

    My wife and I sent Groupon an email stating our displeasure with their decision. We told them that we would never use their service again and then unsubscribed. It will be interesting to see their response if any.

  29. amazon59 Says:

    I know there are sites out there that list companies who are not firearm friendly but I wish we had one on FB – maybe use the map feature – and so you would know when you were in a town where to go and where you were not welcome.

  30. WT Says:

    Wayne LaPierre’s interview with Hannity:
    http://home.nra.org/#/nraorg/VideoModule/8553

  31. KiA Says:

    i was listening to a news segment about Groupon on NPR and it was mentioned that the company expects to lose a small portion of its customers due to boycotting/etc but it anticipated it to be such small numbers as not to affect their regular business.

    in other news, let’s not forget about Frankeinstein’s new new bill proposed yesterday.

  32. Mas Says:

    Some have asked for a list of the stalwarts who stood up and boycotted the exhibition: http://mynortheastoutdoors.com/esos-boycott-supporters/ .

  33. OogieM Says:

    Does anyone have a list of companies both large and small who did pull out so we can support their decision by purchasing from them?

  34. Gordon Says:

    Followup: I received the following reply to my email to be removed from their list, but to inform me in the future if they change their policy –

    Hi Gordon,

    Thank you for taking the time to reach out to us.

    We understand that this is a sensitive topic, and that some of our customers may not agree with our choice to pause the promotion of firearm-related deals. Groupon has always aimed to offer a diverse range of products and services to meet the various tastes and interests of our subscribers. However, at this time, enough customers and merchants have voiced their opinions that we believe a hiatus is warranted.

    Please note that we have never sold guns, and this hiatus only applies to firearm-related deals including shooting ranges, clay pigeon shooting, and concealed weapons training classes. We have not made a final determination regarding this category — we are simply taking a break and may reevaluate in the future.

    If you’d still like to unsubscribe, you can do so by clicking “Unsubscribe from all Groupon emails” in your account at http://www.groupon.com/subscription_center, or the “unsubscribe with one click” link at the bottom of our daily emails.

    We genuinely appreciate your opinion and the feedback you’ve given us. I’ll be sure to share your comments with the appropriate people.

    Regards,

    Eric P.
    Groupon Customer Support
    —————————–

    Isn’t this a great country!!! Groupon has the freedom to listen to “customers and merchants {who} have voiced their opinions {so} that we believe a hiatus is warranted.” And I have the freedom to choose not to do business with them.

  35. MKEgal Says:

    Here are (many of) the vendors who voluntarily pulled out (didn’t wait for the show to be cancelled):
    http://www.MyNortheastClassifieds.com
    Virtual Sports Show goes online Feb. 2 – 10
    Also see: http://www.MyNortheastOutdoors.com
    PLEASE spread that first URL so people can support the companies which showed they value civil rights.

  36. Thomas Says:

    Kroger stores in Nacogdoches, TX no longer carries guns magazines, Academy in Lufkin no longer shows guns in their weekly newspaper ad and I no longer do business with them!

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