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Massad Ayoob on Guns

Want to Comment on a blog post? Look for and click on the blue No Comments or # Comments at the end of each post.

Massad Ayoob


Tuesday, December 18th, 2012

There is precedent for arming school personnel in the United States, seen here:

As discussed in the blog entry below this one, there is certainly precedent for arming school personnel elsewhere in the world, with successful results, as seen here: , and as elaborated on here most authoritatively by Dr. David Schiller:

There were brave teachers who died in the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, according to the British press, as seen here: . Unfortunately, against a man with a gun who’s not within physical reach, even such great courage is fatally futile, as we saw in the instant case.  One lawmaker has had the courage to say so publicly: according to this source, ,”Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, was the sole representative of gun rights’ activists on the various Sunday talk shows. In an interview on ‘Fox News Sunday,’ Gohmert defended the sale of assault weapons and said that the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School, who authorities say died trying to overtake the shooter, should herself have been armed. I wish to God she had had an M-4 in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands. But she takes him (the shooter) out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids,’ Gohmert said.”

Would schoolteachers balk at this new role? Certainly, perhaps a majority. But there would be some – ex-cops, ex-armed services personnel, and those with a strong instinct to be the sheepdog protecting the lamb from the wolf, who would volunteer, and it WOULD have to be a voluntary thing. Remember that the Israeli model also encompasses parents, grandparents, and other community volunteers to serve in this guardian mode, including currently sworn off-duty police officers.

Consider the analogy of the commercial pilot.  In the early days of commercial flight in the USA, many pilots were routinely armed. Even into the 1980s, many airlines allowed pilots to carry personally owned handguns, and they were known to save the aircraft at least a couple of times. The practice faded away…but after 9/11, pilots demanded to be armed, and the FFDO (Federal Flight Deck Officer) program was born.  The pilots who joined the program were trained at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, and issued .40 caliber HK pistols which they’ve carried in cockpits ever since. The program was publicized…and the horror of 9/11 has never even been seriously attempted in all the years since. Those pilots went through the training “on their own time and dime” out of a strong sense of duty. I think you would see the same among a sufficient number of our teachers and school administrators.

Our readers have had many good suggestions, some of which came to me at my personal email.  One recommended a “school marshal” program, to be taught with certification at state and local level police academies.  Another suggested modeling it on Franklin D. Roosevelt’s Depression-era Civilian Conservation Corps, to be called the “Children’s Conservation Corps,” that would draw from retired military and police personnel as well as private citizens with concealed carry permits, to perform a similar protective function in schools.

From Prohibition to the 1994-2004 Clinton Assault Weapons Ban, history shows us that meaningless symbolism fails to protect the innocent from violent crime. I respectfully submit that it is time to try solutions that HAVE been proven to work…such as putting armed good people on the scene where they can stop armed bad people in time to prevent the mass murder of children.

Your thoughts?


  1. Timothy Trammell Says:

    I have my CHP in NC and I would do that for the schools here! Both of my kids are now in collage but I would still

  2. dan Says:

    As the parent of two school age children, plus two more that will be in school when they’re a bit older; I fully support the armed responders idea. It works in Israel (I’ve seen this first hand.) It works in Thailand. “Gun Free” zones have proven to be dangerous. I would feel much more comfortable knowing my children are in the presence of a trained, armed individual(s) that could truly protect them.

  3. Bamadrifter Says:

    Again Mas, fantastic article… I hope and pray that if we can’t get this put into place then at least we could have the Gun Free Zone laws struck down. Ideally both! Any Gun Free Zone= Killing Field.

  4. Paul Hogan Says:

    Mas, while I usually agree with the firearm community laying low out of respect for those loved and lost, our rights are currently being swept up and carried out to sea. While I support the NRA and SAF, I believe that we need leadership from well spoken, fact based individuals such as yourself on the national level. In the past 5 days I have witnessed the rightful anger taken out not on the evildoer himself, but our community; including but not limited to the modern firearms, firearm programming, sales, investments, groups, and the common gun owner. I haven’t heard squat from anyone on a national to counter the anti’s about preparing for the next attack, whether its a sole psychopath or Beslan style Al Qeada assault on multiple targets. They are currently driving the bus, and I feel as if we are getting booted off well before it stops. (This rant is not aimed at you, but you are a briliant speaker about our community and I wish you were interviewed on the major news stations, even if they are not on our side).

  5. Derek E Says:

    My wife is a 5th grade teacher in the town we live in, and I think after last Friday it greatly opened her eyes to the true evil that is in this world. Do I think it has compelled her to want to carry a firearm, not yet. As of yesterday every knock on her classroom door or loud noise now makes everyone of her students jump. While teachers at her school were told not to talk about what happened, changes in school policies are blatant to students in her classroom about why they are being implemented. Being a husband of a teacher and a father of two children (one of which is in first grade) I did tell my wife that I would be happy to volunteer my time and patrol hallways of school buildings in our district if the district would implement something like Israeli has in place, armed or unarmed. Hopefully cooler heads like Rep. Louie Gohmert prevail in congress and protect our children while not infringing on American’s 2nd Amendment rights.

  6. Sean D Sorrentino Says:

    My thoughts?

    Why aren’t you and two other well respected police firearm trainers going on every shout show in the nation telling people that only good people with guns can stop bad people with guns? Aside from the obvious reason that the media probably doesn’t want you on.

    Pick two other trainers, high ranking police officers or firearms experts who share your opinion and start calling all the networks. Get your faces on their shows repeating over and over again that slapping a “Unarmed Victims Here” sign on a school is an invitation to the crazies.

    No one is going to listen to the “pajama clad idiots in their basements,” but someone with your background, who teaches thousands of police officers and civilians about the laws governing use of force is a very different thing.

    Plus, I’d love to see you eat the average anti-gun talking head for breakfast. They don’t know what the hell they are talking about and two minutes facing you and your friends would make that clear to everyone.

  7. Kodai Says:

    I wholeheartily agree with you Mr. Ayoob.

    Why don’t the fear mongers get it?
    Gun-control doesn’t work, and never has in the US.
    In 1934 the National Firearms Act was passed which banned citizens from owning a sawed off shotgun or machinegun without registering them and getting a Federal Tax Stamp liscence.
    In 1938 it became illegal to sell weapons across state lines without a Federal Firearms Liscence, yet millions of guns are bought and sold illegally all over the US yearly.
    In 1968 congress passed the Gun Control Act of 68 which required every gun buyer to fill out form 4473 and effectively ended mail order sale of guns by non-FFL dealers, it also banned the sale of assault rifles (real, fully automatic/machine rifles, tri-burst, commonly called “select-fire”) without a liscence are reclassified them as machineguns (which they are not).
    In 1986 the sale of new machinguns to citizens was banned entirely.
    In 1989 Bush Senior banned the import of foreign made militia rifles (semi-automatic military style weapons that are NOT assault rifles).
    In 1994 the “Assault Weapons Ban” was passed that banned militia rifles and high-capacity magazines. Yet the North Hollywood Bank robbers used real assault rifles (fully automatic) in 1997.
    Clintion pushed for an got passed the “Gun Free Schools” Act of 1995, yet in 1998 Eric Harris and Dylan Kleebold violated that law when they entered Columbine with two sawed off 12-guage shotguns and two tech-nine semi-auto pistols with high-cap magazines. In 2002 the DC Sniper caused a reign of terror for weeks with an AR-15.

    There have been school massacres in North America since before the US even existed, starting in 1764 wtih the Pontiac Rebellion Massacre in Delaware where 10 school children were killed.
    They have continued ever since despite the thousands of laws passed on the federal, state, and local level.

    Einstein once said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”, let’s stop making the same mistake by banning guns or pushing for more gun-control. History has proven that it doesn’t work.

    What does work?
    The Israeli model of armed teachers, and citizens and requiring them to train and become proficient in the use of arms to protect not only themselves but our children.
    Jeanne Assam proved this works in the US in 2007 at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs when she stopped an active shooter from committing an atrocity.

    When we as a society take responsibility for ourselves and our loved ones, instead of passing the “buck” to government, then we will lesen the frequency and damage of mass murderer attacks.

  8. wg Says:

    My teacher/wife would do take that training in a heartbeat and she is a better natural shot than I am. It seems to me that someone, perhaps Jeff Cooper or Clint Smith, mentioned that guards in South America used single shot shotguns. If a guerilla captured it, it was not that useful for mass killing, and it was easy to use for poorly trained individuals. As most of the massacres are carried out by loners, perhaps this old idea might be useful.

    Instead, my wife went through “training” in her school that emphasized, give the armed intruder what they want, be prepared that negotiations take time, do not upset the armed intruder, and do not call 9-11 yourself. School authorities will do so. Those four principles were her school system’s policy She teaches at a very large suburban district with over 100,000 students. She is licensed to carry as an individual and she would be able to keep a weapon in her car. However, other state school districts are using that to fire teachers who do that as an employment policy and her school district’s policy is purposefully unclear.

  9. Chad S Says:

    I am a parent with two children, ages 3 and 6. About a month ago I started looking into getting a CHL in my state (TX), having not fired a handgun in 20+ years. I grew up in NY, where it was hard to get a CHL. I was surprised to find out that if I were granted a permit I could not carry while walking my daughter to school. Really, TX and 30+ other states trust me to carry into a grocery store or other public place but not a school. Does not make sense to me, either you trust me or you don’t, make up your mind.

    I live about 2.5 hours away from that ISD and I applaud what they have setup. Yesterday I sent my local principle a link to your post before this. My local elementary school already has a watchdog program, where fathers of kids come and spend the day, watching over things. I said if the policy ever changes where a parent volunteer can carry a concealed firearm then please contact me. I’m willing to pay the costs of training, background check, etc. (assuming reasonable costs) so that I can carry on school grounds and help protect the innocent life within. Yesterday a current member of their watchdog program was on duty in police uniform so he was able to carry. I don’t think uniformed officers is a long term solution. That could cause kids to wonder, are they safe. I think a concealed option would obviously not inform everyone and help let the kids enjoy their innocence that much longer.

    Mas you are truly an expert in your field. I hope to someday take MAG20,40, and MAG80 classes you offer.

  10. guntotin-mama Says:

    I agree with this proposal. However, let’s practice answering some of the objections you’re bound to hear:

    old people have slow reaction times (this grandma already took care o’ THAT guy but others will say this again)

    these aren’t “professionals” and can’t be counted on to react correctly – or aim accurately

    there might be an accident with the gun…

    and the ever popular: but it might offend, or frighten someone…

  11. Scott Henrichs Says:

    Training won’t cost teachers a dime. Front Sight has offered to provide it for free.

  12. LPH Says:

    I fear that emotional response is going to rule the day and we are in for draconian anti gun measures. I totaly agree with and would volunteer services. I have worked in the local schools as a contract employee, have 10 years of military service, a Hunter Ed Instructor and am a CCW holder. I have two in college and a granddaughter in Middle School. Nothing short of making the schools an undesireable target is what needs to happen. Punishing millions of ligitimate gun owners for the actions of a depraved individual makes absolutely no sense. I am sure that if news reports for the 15th were checked there were at least 20 incidents where haveing a firearm handy saved the day. Unfortunately those wont get reported. Those that would restrict firearms should contemplate just one minute (shouldn’t take even a second) on how and what they would have done and how they would have felt if they had been that principal. She was willing to give everything she had to defend her charges. Could anyone believe that if a firearm had been available that she would not have used it! I can’t and she probably wished she did have one.

  13. FredB Says:

    We need to get past security that isn’t secure when it’s needed. Lanza went through a window rather than deal with a secured buzz in door. Red Lake school in Minnesota had every student go through a metal detector every day to check for guns. Jeffrey Weiss got his gun past the guards at the metal detectors by shooting them. They were unarmed, gun free zone after all.

    There are non gun things that could be done now. For example, classroom doors should be substantial and equipped with a dead bolt lock. The classroom becomes a redoubt. I trust teachers to operate a lock. I’m not so sure, based on my experience with teachers and professors, that I want them to have guns.

  14. Enjoy Every Sandwich Says:

    In today’s Washington Compost there is an article describing a suggestion by Virginia Governor McDonnell to consider arming principals. (

    The comments are interesting, in one sense. Leftists usually scream like scalded cats if anyone criticizes public school teachers and administrators. But not now! Suddenly they’re declaring that public school employees are all idiots who would carelessly leave their guns lying around.

    How is it that their heads don’t explode from the cognitive dissonance?

  15. LPH Says:

    Governor McDonnell is definitely not a liberal or leftist. His Attorney General Ken Kuchenelli (? spl) is very pro gun.

  16. JohnB Says:

    Mas, This is a very common sense approach but I am afraid that this time common sense will be thrown out with the wash water as my grandmother used to say.

  17. Kenneth Fail Says:

    In Nashville this “ex” Marine has a good idea. It works in Israel.
    Could it work all over with carry permit holders??

  18. Thomas Wright Says:

    We have armed guards to protect our money but not our children. Which is more precious. They say they do not want guns in the school environment because they think the children would have access to the guns. But if it was done responsibly with care and fore-thought this would not be a problem. We need to protect our most important asset, our children. They must be protected no matter the cost. The children are our future. Their day to stand up for America will come soon enough, but six or seven years of age is much too young.

  19. Tommy Sewall Says:

    Our school secretary is getting tired of me joking with her about our new door policy that funnels the terrorists directly to her office before they shoot the rest of us. Knowing the teachers (and I mean K-12) and the other school personel with whom I work, I don’t think any would hesitate to kill an active shooter in the school. As to changing attitudes about carrying a gun, my wife now wants her carry permit.

    I do like the idea of a school marshal program but it a) makes too much sense, b) would not be costly enough to implement, and, heaven forbid, would get parents, teachers, and school personel involved as a team. It can never happen.

  20. Jack Says:

    PLEASE keep up your push for this Mas, it does not look good for us gun people right now. The Liberals are feeding on the public’s emotions and are looking like they are going to get some anti gun laws passed. As we all know from the 10 year data of the Assault Weapon Ban accomplished nothing to deter crime. It only prevented law abiding citizens from owning certain guns and having over 10 round magazines, not to mention all that other non sense like pistol grips, folding stocks for your Ruger 10/22, Mini 14 and magazine extensions on your shotguns. The criminals always had these guns only the law abiding folks did not. I was on the street as a police supervisor at the time and gun enthusiast and paid particular attention to this ban and saw no reduction in crime. It was only a pain to purchase the banned items which were called “pre-banned” at very inflated high prices for us gun people was the only thing it accomplished.

    We need to eliminate “Gun Free Killing Zones” for starters.

  21. Alan Says:

    I don’t think we need special training or a federal program. I think we just need to stop restricting the rights of competent adults to defend themselves. It seems to work well outside of “gun free zones” where people don’t commit mass murder every day.

    Every day, kids leave schools and travel through the rest of the world where normal people sometimes carry guns and don’t seem to have a problem. I don’t see why school should be any different from home or main street USA.

  22. JohnB Says:

    When is someone going to realize that the blood of these children is on the hands of the school officials for not protecting them from a nutcase?

  23. Patrick Says:

    This what Senator Dianne Feinstein doing on issue Mas.

    Feinstein to Introduce Updated Assault Weapons Bill in New Congress

    Stops sale of more than 100 assault weapons; protects gun owners by exempting more than 900 specific hunting and sporting weapons

    Washington—Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), author of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban that expired in 2004, announced on Sunday that she will introduce updated legislation early next year.

    “On the first day of the new Congress, I intend to introduce a bill stopping the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of assault weapons as well as large ammunition magazines, strips and drums that hold more than 10 rounds,” Feinstein said. “I am in the process of gathering support for the bill in the Senate and House.”

    “I have been working with my staff for over a year on this legislation,” Feinstein added. “It will be carefully focused on the most dangerous guns that have killed so many people over the years while protecting the rights of gun owners by exempting hundreds of weapons that fall outside the bill’s scope. We must take these dangerous weapons of war off our streets.”

    A Justice Department study found the Assault Weapons Ban was responsible for a 6.7 percent decline in total gun murders. However, since the 2004 expiration of the bill, assault weapons have been used in at least 459 incidents, resulting in 385 deaths and 455 injuries.

    A summary of key provisions in the updated bill:
    Stops the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of more than 100 specifically-named firearms as well as certain semiautomatic rifles, handguns and shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
    Stops the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of large-capacity ammunition feeding devices (magazines, strips and drums) capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.
    Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by: grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
    exempting more than 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting and sporting purposes; and
    exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently

  24. Mike Sweeney Says:

    This afternoon here in Michigan our governor just vetoed Senate Bill 59 which would have allowed Michigan CPL holders who underwent additional training to carry concealed in Michigan’s so called “gun free” zones. In preserving the integrity of “gun free” zones Governor Snyder is keeping our schoolchildren safe …

    … just like in Connecticut.

  25. Richard A. Says:

    Sadly, such a common-sense practicality will not fly in our besotted culture.

    People in America have fallen so far from the path of rationality and good sense that, with the possible exception of a few rural districts, no school district would adopt such a policy due to the liability paranoia we have been inculcated with, and the irrational fear of the very tool that won for us our Independence, and saved us from having to learn German, Japanese, or Russian in succeeding years.

    All that said, I intend to initiate exactly such a policy directive here where I live. Our local school board is pretty much Socialist; it is time they were replaced, if necessary, to bring common sense to this situation.

  26. mark Says:

    I find it interesting that pro gun people want more and more people to have guns, and when irresponsible people get them and perpetrate mass killings all this leads to the opposite effect (gun bans). When anti gun people talk about banning all types of guns, all that does is bring the opposite effect (a gun buying frenzy). Both sides are leading the masses around like sheep. The truth is that there is little standardization for proper psychiatric screening on who could have a gun. There is no standardization on gun storage and safety that is followed by the masses. How many school shootings in this country were committed by young people who had no business even getting there hands on their parents guns, or having access to these guns. On the other side of the coin the anti gun crowd has done more for gun sales in this country than the pro gun crowd ever could. Look at the frenzy that is going on right now, while there are cries for the ban of semi automatics; sales of these weapons are at record highs. I think the pro gun power players are more worried about your money then they are your safety. The anti gun players want government to call the shots, and that is harder to do with a populace that can think for and defend themselves. Each side has cut their own throats with their extreme approaches. One side has made America the wild west, and the other side wants America to be Europe. The truth is that I support gun ownership, but both sides have made me feel stupified by their behavior. It is like two sides that stand on the extreme opposite end of an issue and fight an endless court battle. In the end neither side gets everything they want; only the lawyers get rich.

  27. WT Says:

    Please share freely:

    For Newtown, CT

    ‘Twas 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38,
    When 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven’s gate.
    Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air,
    They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
    They were filled with such joy, they didn’t know what to say,
    They remembered nothing of what happened earlier that day.
    “Where are we?” asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
    “This is heaven,” declared a small boy,
    “We’re spending Christmas at God’s house!”
    Then what to their wondering eyes did appear,
    But Jesus, their Savior– the children gathered near.
    He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same,
    Then he opened his arms and he called them by name.
    And in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bring,
    Those children all flew into the arms of their King.
    And as they lingered in the warmth of his embrace,
    One small girl turned and looked at Jesus’ face.
    As if He could read all the questions she had,
    He gently whispered to her, “I’ll take care of Mom and Dad.”
    Then He looked down on earth, the world far below,
    And He saw all the hurt, the sorrow, and woe.
    He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
    “Let my power and presence reenter this land!”
    “May this country be delivered from the hands of fools,”
    “I’m taking back my nation, I’m taking back my schools!”
    Then He and the children stood up without a sound,
    “Come now my children, let me show you around.”
    Excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran,
    All displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can.
    And I heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
    “In the midst of this darkness,

  28. Kevin (Colorado) Says:

    I have been wondering what it would take to add language to teacher’s contracts/job descriptions in Colorado allowing them to carry under 3B below? And maybe zero-dollar contracts with willing CCW parents to be “on-duty” anytime we are on school grounds? Sign me up!!!

    Colorado Revised Statutes 18-12-214. Authority granted by permit – carrying restrictions

    (3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:

    (a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;

    (b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;

  29. Harold Says:

    Yes, more guns are being sold than ever. Yes, violent crimes are at all time LOWS. Where is this “Wild West” you speak of?
    The media is whipping Sheeple into a frenzy, there’s no reason the regurgitate it again. We need to stand 100% together for our rights!

  30. Kasinefect Says:

    Mas: Many people have posted comments to the effect of:” Why don’t the anti-gunners get it?” Some laymen may not get it but the anti-gun politions certainly do! If they did not, Sen Feinstein would not own a handgun,( I’ve seen at least two different videos of her turning it in and read that she STILL owns one.) Se. Schumer and Mayor Bloomburg have ARMED security details,(how much does THAT cost the taxpayers?) I think they get it just fine-they just don’t want the “great unwashed masses”,(the rest of us), to be armed. Remmber the Mayor of Chicago who said “never let a good crises go to waste.” My kids were taught to shoot and handle guns safely. Part of the reason was in case they ever ran into such an evil beast as the deranged monster who slaughterd those poor children on Friday.

  31. Chris from AK Says:

    I agree with Sean D. Sorrentino.

    Credible, knowledgeable citizens need to be speaking out and making their voices heard.

  32. Lorenzo Says:


    I agree with your posting, and the detailed, documented successes of the programs you speak of. However, the expected response today is to reach deep down, grab hold of your gonads (or ovaries, I don’t want to be gender specific) rip them out and hand them to the state. Only then will it be perceived that “something was done”.

    Is there an easy answer? I don’t know. Not if we intend to keep faith with the principles of liberty written into our Founding documents.

  33. Jack Finch Says:

    As you know from our e-mails, I agree with your comments. That said, I remain concerned about the impact of the main stream media coverage, the politicians and the legions of lawyers who will weigh in on any such amred guard approach from a liability standpoint… which will likely sway the school administrators and associated bureaucrats. As always, we shall see. Keep up the good fight as will I and your many supporters… You saw my cautionary Tuesday e-mail to Bill O’Reilly.

  34. Russell Middleton Says:

    Mas, You are the calm reasoned voice of experience, thank you. Now, how do we get the media to listen and publish the truth?

    I live in Stirling, Scotland, less than seven miles from Dunblane. I am aware of a nearly constant flow of subliminal messages that ‘all guns are evil’ and ‘private citizens can not be trusted.’

    As Olson and Kopel so eloquently documented in ALL THE WAY DOWN THE SLIPPERY SLOPE: GUN PROHIBITION IN ENGLAND AND SOME LESSONS FOR CIVIL LIBERTIES IN AMERICA, Britain did not arrive at the present “gold standard” of gun control overnight. And, because of the special relationship between Britain and the United States of America as evidenced by the number of undersea cables connecting our two countries, the infectiousness of the gun-control faith has been vastly underestimated. Like a virus this faith is constantly mutating, Scotland’s move to register air-guns a prime example.

    I am reminded of the United States Office of Strategic Services’ psychological profile of Hitler prepared during the war: “His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.”

    Perhaps the shooting in the Sandy Hook Elementary School has such resonance here because it took place in New England. A region of the United States with the strongest ties to Britain.

    Like an invasive species, eradication depends on killing the root. If gun rights are to survive in the United States maybe more of the 2nd Amendment, Bill of Rights, Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness message needs to get pushed back upstream? If it’s not too late.

    Even though many of the great Age of Enlightenment thinkers where British. And their ideas are the foundation of America. The British oligarchy has been working to dilute and counteract that wisdom for centuries.

    All the best…

  35. Steve Long Says:

    I propose serious legislation calling for an end to “Gun Free Slaughter Zones.”

    Unfortunately the true evil, a vile and utmost travesty, is yet to come, “leadership” that exploits the deaths of the innocents and takes successful steps that insure a greater number of potential victims go defenseless in the future.

    God save us if good men like Mas cannot help us prevail in truthful, well reasoned and very public discussion. We all must participate and effectively communicate. Preaching to the choir will not be enough.

    70-80 million gun owners getting off their collective cans and delivering the truth about guns to just 4 or 5 people would amount to enough coverage for the approximate 311 million US population. My question is how to properly arm and motivate gun owners with the necessary talking points.

    I think the enemy-owned-media and politicians has already demonstrated their level of commitment to the truth. The spiral down the drain to total citizen disarmament is accelerating. How can we even slow it?

  36. Charley Says:

    It is obvious that programs in Israel and Thailand are effective in providing safer school environments for the children. These programs and interventions could be utilized in this country to provide for the safety of our children. However, such programs would not be viewed as “politically correct” by the current administration in Washington. The “gun grabbers” have no intention of providing a safer environment for our children, or our citizens. The “gun grabbers” simply pursue the agenda of disarming all law abiding citizens. As such, the “gun grabbers” will exploit any tragedy that may benefit their cause.

  37. Vince Says:


    Me thinks we’ve seen all this before, 1934, 1968, 1994, and now 2013. No new law could be crafted and signed before 2013 but rest assured, it’ll make 1934 to 1994 look pro gun in comparision.

    Tragedy that strikes a nation, politicians crafting unwarranted and ineffectual law, and good people paying the price for evil’s actions. I fear what lies ahead because “gun free zones” are nothing more than “criminal empowerment zones”. This nation does not have a “gun problem” it has a people problem.


  38. Hanza Says:

    I was just on the Cheaper Than Dirt website to buy an ‘ugly black rifle’ and they are no longer selling firearms. They used to ship to a local FFL of course.

    But they are obviously part of the fall out over Connecticut.

    I think I may have waited to long to buy.

    I did send them an email about their decision, and also said I was no longer going to buy ammo from them.

    I hope they go out of business.

  39. Edge Says:

    It’s also time to rethink school design. Currently, many schools prepare students and teachers for active shooter scenarios by doing drills on hiding. Fine…if that’s all you’ve got then that’s all you’ve got and it is better than nothing. Unfortunately, many modern schools are being designed with these stupid “open concepts” where there are no walls or separate rooms. Classes are just kind of partitioned off with dividers. Their entire defensive strategy…to hide…is thwarted by the fact that there isnt an actual room with lockable doors to hide in. They try and sell it as modern thinking in education but the reality is that it saves construction dollars since materials for doors, locks, and walls don’t have to be purchased and installed. It’s not safe and I don’t really think it is helping kids learn more. My generation and those before me didn’t turn out to be dunces and we had class in actual rooms with doors that could be locked. NASA sent people to the moon in machines designed by men that used paper, pencils, and slide rules…not having an “open concept” classroom didn’t seem to stunt their cognitive development. .

    Furthermore, thought should be given to access control when building a school. When I go to my son’s school and go in the front door I’m supposed to stop at the office and get checked in. What if I don’t? If the receptionist sees me bypass the office she can get up and try and chase me down, hoping that I haven’t already ducked into any number of hallways or rooms before she catches up. And what is she going to do if she does catch up? I’m not the Incredible Hulk or anything but I would probably have a significant strength and weight advantage…and thats not including weapons. She then could run back to the office and call the school district police. They are only paying these guys $23.55 per hour and yet still can’t afford to have one at each school (or even each elementary school). When seconds count the police are minutes away. Perhaps a controlled access system such as a man-trap is in order. If all visitors must be buzzed in then there’s less of a risk of someone sneaking by and the poor receptionist doesn’t suddenly have to assume the role of police officer and chase someone down. Sure, it’s not as touchy-feely and personable looking, but it could save lives and even convenience stores can afford remote locks. There are a lot of families out there right now who wouldn’t care if the front if their kid’s school looked like a maximum security prison if it meant that their child would have been safer

  40. Captain Bob Says:

    I have to agree with several of the Posters here that we need to aggressively promote our point of view. We as gun owners always seem to be on the defensive, answering to charges levvyed at us, explaining our position in a meek way. Or, we just preach to the choir.
    We need to actively get our message out to reach ALL the people. Mas, persons such as yourself, and collegues who are respected, need to find someway to be heard on a national level. The NRA tries but there is a stigma associated with them such that no one against guns will even listen.
    Just as during elections there are the people set to vote only their way but there is a “swing vote”. There are a large number of people who can be swayed either way. If our position is presented in a rational and logical manner we CAN win over some of these people. Mas, PLEASE consider this.

  41. Joe Says:

    Mas, There is nothing that would have stopped the Newtown Massacre. We have a mother that could not realize that her son would be capable of this horrendous crime. and failed to protect her firearms from him. She even went so far as to take him shooting with her. The boy had a history of playing “violent” video games along with personality disorders. Guess we can’t cover all the bases even if we wanted to.

  42. Flick Says:

    My idea to protect the kids would be to rescind the gun-free zones of schools, nationwide. You can carry onto school property concealed if you have a CCW.

    That would go for teachers, too. Much publicity, teachers and other school personnel are allowed to be armed, with a CCW. I wouldn’t require it. I’d insist on the gun be carried well concealed, as it’s really nobody’s business who has one and who doesn’t. Also, not in a desk drawer or purse.

    It wouldn’t much matter if there were NO teachers that wanted to do it, as there would always be doubt in the mind of the Bad Guy, and thus schools are no longer target zones full of potential victims. We don’t need to publicize that there ARE guns on campus, for a fact, or who has them.

    It would be a deterrent, much like burglarizing an occupied home is undesirable here in the U.S. – because the homeowner *might* shoot the burglar and is allowed to.

  43. Jeff Says:

    I fully support armed & trained personnel at every school, whether they be citizens or professionals. In addition I think it should be mandatory for teachers to carry some type of non-lethal defense, if they are not willing to carry a firearm. Pepper spray, taser, I even heard on the radio of someone successfully using a can of Raid to stop a pair of attackers, it has a 25 foot range, and both attackers were blinded and had to be hospitalized. I have to believe that any of these measures would have stopped or slowed the Conn. attack long enough for help to arrive. I can’t see a reason for teachers to resist training and carrying non-lethal defense for their kids if they refuse to carry lethal force.
    Any sane non “gun” person would not hike in the woods where bears are known to frequent without protection, or dive with sharks without a cage, or refuse to wear a seatbelt in the car, being in public is no different, people need to start understanding they need to take responsibility for their own protection.

  44. Winston Smith Says:

    How about we just let states decide and get the federal “gun free school zone” law out of the way?

    Liberal states can continue their (not working) method.

    Gun friendly states can opt to allow faculty and staff who choose to arm themselves to carry concealed at the school (just like they would at a mall or gas station).

    Then let’s let that cook for a decade and see the results. There won’t be blood on OUR hands that way.

  45. Rokurota Says:

    I would sign up for it in a heartbeat. I’ve got two elementary school kids, we sit on the PTA board and try to be as involved as possible. As an adult male in a school with lots of absent fathers, there is the side benefit of being another positive male role model, complementing the many new male teachers.

    I HATED seeing National Guardsmen with M4s in our airports after 9/11. I understand everyone who shudders at the image of armed guards in our schools. So let’s make sure we take this into consideration in talking up this idea. It’s a good one, and if that means a concealed handgun rather than a scary rifle, so be it.

  46. Mike in VA Says:

    Mas, I fully back Paul Hogans comments. Who better than you to speak for our community? Just wathced the President’s speach. He is appointing VP Biben to spear head this. I think we all know that an over reaching “solution” is on the horizon.

  47. LPH Says:

    The Fox is being let loose in the Hen House. Biden will make sure we lose as many of our “Inaielinable Rights” as he can manage. We some how need to mobilize the entire firearms community and inundate our “representitives” with email, snail mail and phone calls. If we can’t rally the troops we are in deep pucky and the Constitution will be reinterpreted to suit our liberal leaders ideas of what it says.

  48. marko Says:

    While the NRA was silent, i think the best counterarguments to the gun ban activists came from Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America. Particularly, i mean his appearance on CNN Piers Morgan show.

    I think GOA represents gun owners better than the NRA. Pratt’s arguments in such a hostile environment were brilliant!

  49. Bill Walton Says:

    I would add my call to you and other security experts around the country to those made by other posters above. I do not believe that the NRA will be an effective spokesman in this case as they have already been positioned as “the bad guys” by the media. Nor do they speak from experience in these matters as you would. Attempts at disarming potential aggressors is not and cannot be allowed to be positioned as an effective way to protect potential victims.

  50. Patrick Says:

    Obama offering up gun control Mas instead of smart solution off up.

    Spurred by a horrific elementary school shooting, President Barack Obama tasked his administration Wednesday with creating concrete proposals to reduce gun violence that has plagued the country.

    “This time, the words need to lead to action,” said Obama, who set a January deadline for the recommendations. He vowed to push for their implementation without delay.

    The president, who exerted little political capital on gun control during his first term, also pressed Congress to reinstate an assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004. He also called for stricter background checks for people who seek to purchase weapons and limited high capacity clips.

    “The fact that this problem is complex can no longer be an excuse for doing nothing,” Obama said. “The fact that we can’t prevent every act of violence doesn’t mean we can’t steadily reduce the violence.”

    Obama’s announcement Wednesday underscores the urgency the White House sees in formulating a response to the shooting in Newtown, Conn. Twenty children and six adults were killed when a man carrying a military-style rifle stormed an elementary school.

    The massacre has prompted several congressional gun rights supporters to consider new legislation to control firearms, and there is some concern that their willingness to engage could fade as the shock and sorrow over the Newtown shooting eases.

    Obama said Wednesday it was “encouraging” to see people of different backgrounds and political affiliations coming to an understanding that the country has an obligation to prevent such violence.

    Appealing to gun owners, Obama said he believes in the Second Amendment and the country’s strong tradition of gun ownership. And he said “the vast majority of gun owners in America are responsible.”

    The president tasked Vice President Joe Biden with leading the administration-wide effort to create new gun control policies. Obama also wants his team to consider ways to improve mental health resources and address ways to create a culture that doesn’t promote violence.

    The departments of Justice, Education, Health and Human Services, and Homeland Security will all be part of the process.

    Biden’s prominent role in the process could be an asset for the White House in getting gun legislation through Congress. The vice president spent decades in the Senate and has been called on by Obama before to use his long-standing relationships with lawmakers to build support for White House measures.

  51. Michael Moody Says:


    What Paul Hogan said. I wish you would go on the big networks and show them your reasoning. We need you to debate Piers Morgan desperately.

  52. Hanza Says:

    Earlier in comments I said that the Cheaper Than Dirt web site said they would no longer be selling firearms. It was a blanket no.

    This afternoon I received an email from them that said they would once again be selling firearms and shipping to FFLs as “soon as they review their policies”.

    I’m wondering how much their change in stance had to do with people such as myself writing?

  53. Sian Says:

    I’m amazed by what I’ve seen in this ‘debate’.

    So many people don’t know that an autoloading rifle is not the same thing as a machine gun. They honestly believe, because of the media’s deliberate misleading, that the general public can buy machineguns without a permit or a background check. No wonder they get frothy! I don’t know what can be done to educate the public, but something needs to be done.

    Then there’s the focus on ‘assault weapons’. How much damage do these weapons designed to kill as many people as quickly and indiscriminately as possible?

    Something on the order of 385 people have been killed by ‘assault weapons’ since the ban expired in 2004. Assuming it’s distributed evenly, that’s about 50 a year (rounded up for generosity)

    put in perspective: (all numbers approx but generally accurate)
    50 a year are killed by ‘assault rifles’ (rounded up.)
    90 people are killed in traffic accidents every day.
    500 a year by ingestion of objects
    500 a year from electric shock
    62 a year by lightning
    53 a year by bees and wasps


  54. atm Says:

    This article is exactly what I pointed out to my representatives in Washington – look to our response to 9/11 for an effective way to protect our children. I suggest everyone else contact their reps to do the same.

    As a country we feel the need to do something right now, and we need an option other than what the anti-gun media is pushing.

  55. AixSponsa Says:

    “While most of America mourns for the Newtown victims, others are rushing to place blame everywhere except on the person who did it. There are calls for a ban on automatic weapons in the wake of the latest school shooting….Some blame violent video games or movies, … Maybe it’s the culture. Before we threw out the moral sanctions against seeing violence as entertainment, it was easier to spot the warped people, because back then, not “everybody was doing it.” Those who were, you knew you had to watch. And maybe the news media deserve a share of blame for making these shooters famous. John Hinderaker at the Powerline blog has a suggestion: how about if every video game maker, Hollywood studio and news outlet that profits off graphic violence made a contribution to cover the cost of putting armed guards in our schools?” Mike Huckabee Newsletter 12-20-12

  56. AixSponsa Says:

    Remembering the Jonesboro AR sniper shooting, as a result an armed officer was placed in the school. No shooting since. Does ONE armed guard make that possible? NO. What if shots were fired at the opposite end of the building. Getting there takes time. The only answer is multiple staff carrying handguns. Guns do not upset kids if they are taught what they are and how to handle them. I started my children and grandchildren at age 8 on S&W 10, and they have always had a healthy respect for all weapons.

  57. roscoe king Says:

    When I was in the military, I feared my government more than I did the enemy. I knew the enemy would try to kill me and I had a 50-50 chance of killing him or him killing me. Our leaders have so much power and money, that nothing satisfies them anymore. It’s control they now seek. Control of every move or decision you make. They arm themselves or have body guards, but want us to go unprotected. They no longer have or display a common sense approached to anything. The guns used to kill those children should have been in a gun safe and away from this unstable person. Children today are taught the evil things of life in our schools. The good is forbidden and the evil is promoted and a government without God, is a government to be feared. If you don’t believe in God so be it, now sit down and let those that do, teach our children in our schools, the bilblical principles of morality, and maybe then the violence in our society will subside. What you see today is the lack of morality and the mentality of our youth being acted out. The gun powder and guns are not the problem. I submit that the largest standing army in the world is the American gun owner. Try and take away the 2nd admendment instead of teaching the children respect for others, manners, Godly principles, love, how to deal with real life situations, or fail to provide a security system such as the one in proven to work- as in Israel, will only perpetuate the violence of a society on the edge of rebellion. Gun control and government is not the answer, the American public has a choice to make-Good or Evil, and God Bless those children and their families. A tragic time during a beautiful season,

  58. Wade Says:

    My daughter, an elementary school music teacher, told me on Tuesday that there is no question, that she would be prepared to pull that trigger. “Those are my kids!”

    She said she is grateful that at least in her room she has things she can throw, like mallets and cymbals. Didn’t make me feel much better about it though.

  59. guntotin-mama Says:

    I’ve been watching the current buying phenomenon. Seems there are a lot of Americans that don’t believe gun control will keep them safer than some ammo and their own firearm.

    The call for the AWB turns out to be a better economic stimulus than any other program. Go figure.

    And it’s doing wonders for NRA’s membership numbers, too.

  60. Chris W. Says:

    I too would volunteer to provide security for schools. I have a CCW but work for the schools and cannot keep “safe” after I leave my house to go to work (Admin building). Here is another former LEOs ideas:

  61. BHirsh Says:

    Hey, Mas –

    Since D.C. v. Heller cited U.S. v. Miller and Miller’s two-pronged test of what arms enjoy constitutional “protection”, isn’t a so-called “assault weapons” (sic) ban doomed from jumpstreet?

  62. Patrick Says:

    In the wake of the Connecticut shooting rampage, Gov. Cuomo and legislative leaders are quietly negotiating a package of tough new gun laws that they hope can be voted on within days, the Daily News has learned.

    At the center of the talks is a proposal to expand the state assault weapons ban to include all firearms with clips of more than seven bullets, sources said.

    That proposal would have outlawed at least one of the assault weapons that Adam Lanza used to kill 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School last Friday.

    Lawmakers have been told to be prepared to return to the Capitol as soon as Thursday if a deal can be pieced together, sources said.

  63. mark Says:

    Harold, what I am saying is that when you stand on the end of an extreme you end up losing every thing in between. I stand for gun rights, but I also realize that with great power comes great responsibility. My rights as a responsible gun owner are going to eventually be threatened by the irresponsible gun owners. The mother of this killer obviously made some major gun safety violations. Why was her son who had a social coping defect being taken to the gun range by his mother? Why were these guns even accessible to her son at all when they were not at the range? Do you know how many mass shootings were perpetrated by guns that were stolen from friends or parents? The gun for the mall shooting out west that took place just before this school shooting was stolen from a friend of the shooter. Do you know that Massad Ayoob recommends competency tests for people who carry firearms? There are some states that I do not have to show any competency, I can just apply for the license to carry? There is no standardization in this country. I remember being at a sporting goods store that sold guns; I seen a little old lady in her eighties being sold a pistol that she could not even pull the slide back on. This is not going to make a strong case for the right to own guns, especially when someone ends up dead. The anti gun crowd needs public opinion on there side to get traction. The pro gun masses are giving it to them more and more. I do not want my rights threatened by a lack of standardization. It is the gun owners out there that are irresponsible that are a bigger threat to my rights then any anti gunner. They are the ones that are giving a voice to the anti gun crowd. So yes, it is the wild west out there in the sense that irresponsibility with firearms is more prevalent then i need it to be to preserve my rights.

  64. Sian Says:

    I don’t know if you will read this..

    but I wonder if a teacher/administrator ever stops one of these with a CCW illegally carried in a school ‘gun free zone’ just how big of a book will be thrown at them.

  65. Hanza Says:

    @Mark: You said “Do you know that Massad Ayoob recommends competency tests for people who carry firearms?”

    Governments that don’t want people to carry firearms can make the requirements so strict and/or expensive that maybe even Mas wouldn’t be able to qualify. Chicago will probably try this now that a federal court has said that there can’t be a blanket prohibition on concealed carry.

    Governments such as New York City have serious requirements to own a firearm, let alone be able to carry. Of course that is all waived for people in favor with those that control the process.

    If the 2nd amendment can be subverted then government could feel free to control the right of free speach under the 1st. In fact there have been noises about having government control what can go on the internet.

    Do you want a government drone to have to approve your letter to the editor?

    Be careful what you wish for.

  66. Patrick Says:

    Here thing Mark I think Mas well agree to this that goverment does know what guns are best ban from general public. You well find that Mas does agree that ban magzine over ten round gone stop mass shooting. Mas know once start down road ban so called evil guns that road does end untill ever gun ban. All ready Gov. Cuomo working on ban that well make any gun holding more seven round band in state wich all out effort ban all gun in his state. You have Obama talk only about gun control nothing else. His commission on this matter is hand pick group ant gun control people. Obama made very clear he gone use his office to push through only gun control over this matter. If want keep right have gun time join Nra or lose that right. Becuase this gone way beyond assault weapons attack on are rights be owener guns. If doubts about that look what put in so called assault weapons ban. Alot what gone put in that bill is about assault weapons.

  67. Mas Says:

    Folks, let’s be careful and accurate when we attribute statements and positions to others. Patrick, your post above implies that I agree that banning magazines above ten rounds might stop mass shootings. I believe no such thing.

  68. duke Says:

    OK, some questions, are armed guards going to be enough and/or cost effective? Will they not be the first target of the gunman? Most gunman plan their crimes for months. They’ll know who the guards are. In addition, won’t the crazy’s just shoot up the bus? Will that now require armed guards on buses? What about at the bus stop? What about a crazy in a car that runs a bus off the road or into it head on?

    I’d much rather have an armed trained staff. Guards are OK, but are not going to be enough.

  69. Hanza Says:

    I read a news item today that said that Brownell’s has sold 3.5 YEARS worth of firearms magazines in the last 72 hours.

    Also on the Cheaper Than Dirt web site they are saying that they are way behind in filling orders.

  70. Ron Says:

    You all talk like you think this is about keeping the children safe. It’s about CONTROL. If it was about keeping the children safe our “leaders” would be willing to try your ideas, because they have been proven to work.

  71. .45StayAlive Says:

    Dear Mas,

    You mirror my thoughts exactly. I am 51 years old, have a CCW permit and a flawless NICS record, am proficient with arms and would be perfectly willing to donate at least a day a week protecting my local school. But I don’t see it happening in my lifetime, in this political climate. It’s very frustrating.

    Best wishes,


  72. Cassandra (of Troy) Says:


    That’s the part that ‘Mommy’ Feinstein & her anti-2A co-cultists in politics & the media are pushing as it has the appearence of being ‘reasonable’ & therefore innocuous, but what she & her allies really have in mind & don’t want the public to know about is the following.:

    Sen. Feinstein suggests national buyback of guns

    Cuomo Says He’ll Outline Gun Proposal Next Month

    Ellenville mayor sets gun control talk
    (From, must allow scripts to view)

    Syracuse basketball coach Jim Boeheim blasts U.S. gun culture in press conference after milestone victory

    Louisville coach Pitino supports gun control

    So much for the anti-2A cult’s “NOBODY wants to take ANYONE’S guns away, that’s just a gun lobby scare tactic & simply untrue” claim. Dare we hope that those running the big pro-2A outfits will have the temerity to bring up the above in a public forum?

  73. Cassandra (of Troy) Says:


    That sounded remarkably akin to an article Jeffrey Goldberg wrote for The Atlantic, appears to say much but on closer review really doesn’t just like the slew of ‘a pox on both their houses’ pseudo-neutral remarks that are popping up on other sites.

    “One side has made America the wild west, and the other side wants America to be Europe”

    At least you got the second half right, but the claim in the first half is typical for ignorant pseudo-sophisticates who consider the representations of the American west shown in movies & on TV to be accurate.

  74. Dave B Says:

    Count me as an elementary teacher who supports the idea of having staff members armed. I’ve suggested to my state senators that the State Patrol be tasked with developing a training program for school staff. I believe having only one armed guard would make that person the initial target, so having teachers who have the training to carry concealed would be an even greater deterrent since most people wouldn’t know who was armed.

  75. Brogan Says:

    Question: How can the government “buy back” something they never owned? And with who’s money? I’d say that was an infringement. Look at the big picture… It’s not about gun control. It’s about control. The control of you and me. It’s obvious the talking points being used are designed to invoke an emotional response. The arguments for gun control are easily refuted if one really cares to look at the facts. Look at all the laws that were passed to control you. The Patriot act, military commissions act, NDAA, Free speech zones… all put into place to control you. Now they can’t very well let you have the ability to say no… Can they? It’s time to understand that they want us disarmed at any cost and will use ANY reason to accomplish it.

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