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Massad Ayoob on Guns

Want to Comment on a blog post? Look for and click on the blue No Comments or # Comments at the end of each post.



Massad Ayoob

GUNS, GOODIES, AND GOODY’S

Friday, December 30th, 2011

It’s a story that has played out before: someone thinks if their marriage license and their driver’s license are recognized by the State of New York, their license to carry a gun must be, too. A female medical student at the 9/11 memorial discovered otherwise, here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/29/meredith-graves-tourist-arrested-gun-911-memorial_n_1174725.html?1325182576&icid=maing-grid7|maing9|dl4|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D123676

The plot thickened. Searching her purse after she tried to do the right thing and declare her little Kel-Tec P32, police found a glassine bag filled with white powder and, not surprisingly, sent it for analysis. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has made anti-gun campaigns his cause célèbre, publicly accused her of being in illegal possession of cocaine, here:

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2011/12/4817830/bloomberg-says-tennessee-nurse-arrested-gun-charge-had-cocaine-too-

The medical student explained that the substance was powdered aspirin. Noo Yawkers don’t know what Southern folks know: powdered aspirin, notably Goody’s and BC Powders, are popular headache remedies south of the Mason-Dixon line, and the defendant and her pistol permit both hail from Tennessee.

For a hundred years, New York’s Sullivan Act has inflicted draconian felony punishment on those who carry or even merely possess handguns, even if they are licensed elsewhere. New York City won’t even recognize a permit issued in Albany or Buffalo. Google Plaxico Burress: even the rich and famous are not immune.

It is common for people innocently and honestly checking firearms at airports in New York to be arrested for felony illegal possession. A victimless crime, classic malum prohibitum, this has a ruinous effect on the lives of dozens of good American citizens every year, not to mention the waste in New Yorkers’ tax dollars.  The Tennessee medical student has drawn much sympathy from the general public, and even anti-gun politicians are urging authorities to go easy on the lady, for fear of creating a backlash in favor of House Resolution 822, which would require national reciprocity in recognition of other states’ handgun permits, as noted here: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/hold_your_fire_4dW6vKJHy3GFawLPw5riDM.

And of course, some of my large-bore and Magnum-loving friends would say that since she only had a .32, it ought to at the very least be reduced to a misdemeanor.

 

My hope for the New Year is that HR 822 passes the Senate and becomes national law…that the med student gets a finding from the crime lab of “Yep, it’s powdered aspirin” and gets enough from her libel suit against Mayor Bloomberg and the City of New York to pay her legal fees and compensate her for her suffering… and that some common sense gets restored to the gun law situation in the United States.

I wish you all a happy, healthy, productive and safe New Year.

61 Responses to “GUNS, GOODIES, AND GOODY’S”

  1. Joe Says:

    I’m at a complete loss as to why anyone from America would want to travel to New York in the first place.

  2. Long Island Mike Says:

    Yeah. I am at a complete loss why anyone would want to go to anywhere in America…all a bunch of commies, every damm one of them.

    http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/members/members.shtml

  3. 45MoonClip Says:

    I just returned from NYC after a visit last week. Had a great time in Manhattan and spent alot of dinero. NYC is quite expensive. Being a responsible licensed gun owner, I always avail myself of resources to determine where I can legally carry. You don’t have to do too much research to learn that NY and NJ are very unfriendly to this most important constitional right. I guess the bill of rights just doesn’t apply in these particular jurisdiction. I left my guns at home. That leaves me feeling bit naked, but at least “legal”.
    Correct me if I’m in error, but shouldn’t our Tennesee medical student done the same thing? It troubles me that she traveled to NYC and apparently “forgot” she was carrying. Possession of a firearm on your person brings tremendous resposibilty. Even a lowly .32!

  4. Tim from CO Says:

    I was going to make a post about this on here when I read about it the other day. It’s really unfortunate when stuff like this happens. It was an honest mistake that shouldn’t cost someone their future. As I understand it, if she’s convicted that’s a felony on the record.

    Think it was the NY Times that said something along the lines of why would she even think of carrying at 9/11… I can’t understand liberals…why wouldn’t you?

    It’s tempting to say she should have known that her permit wasn’t valid in NY but still if she’s convicted she can kiss her permit and career goodbye. Not to mention the anti-gun side will probably run with this as well.

    Anyway, I’m with Joe on this. I have little desire to visit NY or any other places that fail to recognize one’s right to self-defense.

    Here’s hoping National Carry passes but I’m kind of doubtful about it…

  5. Winston Smith Says:

    Second what Joe said. That was her first mistake.

  6. DaddyBear Says:

    When the test on the aspirin powder comes back, I hope she sues Bloomberg for slander big enough to make it hurt.

    But yeah, she should have checked to make sure she was legal before carrying in New York. Unless you want to be a test case, the law is the law, and we should follow it while simultaneously trying to get it changed or annulled.

  7. Will Cushman Says:

    I went to the link posted by Long Island Mike for Mayors Against Illegal Guns and read their statement of principals which would have the reader believe that they are only against illegal guns and criminals buying/possessing “guns”. I call BS on that- these politicians want to define what is an ‘illegal gun’ (apparently in NYC just about any firearm owned or possessed by anyone other than a local law enforcement officer or one of the permitted political elite). I’m with Joe on this one- just say no and then don’t go.

  8. Jeff in WI Says:

    I completely agree that the right to keep and BEAR arms should be recognized nationwide, however, we all know that this is not the case. I sincerely hope that all ends well for this woman but, dang it, she should have known better! It doesn’t take much research to know that NYC is the one place that you do NOT take your gun to. While I think NYC is wrong to prohibit carry, the fact of the matter is that they DO, and this woman should have known better. God how I hope she nails Bloomberg to the wall on the slander part though.

    As to the reciprocity bill, I highly doubt it will pass the senate. I hope it does, but it’s chances are slim based on past experience.

  9. Marc-Wi Says:

    Happy new year to you and Gail,Mas.

  10. Rich Says:

    I grew up on Long Island and then escaped to New Hampshire via the US Army and Ft Devens. When I was 21 and still lived there I went into a Suffolk County PD office and inquired as to the procedures to getting a pistol permit. They laughed me out of the place.

    I’m sorry that NYC hasn’t caught on yet but I have to tell you, the only way to get them to catch on is through legal force. It’s not just the politicians, it’s the public at large because the public votes these people into office. For the anti-gunners this issue, preventing the masses from exercising their firearms rights, is religion. It is based on faith and a blind obidience to that faith at that. They will never change.

    The same sort lives in DC where they are jumping through all sorts of hoops to circumvent the Supreme Court decision there. These people will always be with us, at least for the rest of our lives. We’re making headway and we take casulties like this lady, but it is painful.

  11. George Says:

    Can she use a defense saying she was running a sting on the security at the memorial? Seems to work well when Bloomberg is funding illegal gun purchases outside of his jurisdiction…..

  12. Tom Young Says:

    Living out here by Vegas, I’d gladly take the peace and quiet of NYC over this bastoon of debauchery most days.

    Even though I’m not a fan of HR 822, I really have a problem with the Fed.gov running anything correctly or telling States what to do. I also think it will cause more States to actually ban carry altogether rather than give non-resident “foreigners” the ability too. But yet, I see stories like this and the one a while back about the NJ Cop who rode public transit to work and had to go through NY and got arrested for it and realize that maybe it should pass

  13. Matt Says:

    Boycott NYC – even aside from this incident, Bloomberg has turned it into a very-high-tax nanny-state hell for normal people.

  14. Glenbo Says:

    Does not Tennessee have reciprocity with New York? And if it does, does that right not work in NYC? And if NYC does not honor NY State reciprocity with other states, I would suggest not going there to spend our hard earned money.

  15. Rich Says:

    A friend of mine, a naturalized citizen from Peru, sent me this one, another example of a citizen being arrested.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57344080/tea-partys-mark-meckler-arrested-on-gun-charge/

  16. Randy Says:

    When ever I travel I always check the firearms laws for that state. Even though I’m from IL, I have permits issued by FL and Utah. With WI now on board I can carry in all the states surrounding IL EXCEPT FOR MY HOME STATE.

    I carry all the time inside my business and I know how easy it is to cross the doorway to the public sidewalk and commit a class 4 felony.(used to be class A misdemeanor) Once I made it all the way to the Post Office and didn’t realize I still had my Ruger LCR in my pocket holster!

    MO has a neat Peaceable Journey Law that allows anyone who can legally possess a firearm can travel within their state without a permit so long as it remains in the vehicle and is not brandished.
    http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/mshpweb/publications/brochures/documents/shp-863.pdf

    Too bad other states can’t follow suit. By the way, Mas since I am not a follower of Football the reference to Plaxico Burriss meant nothing to me and Google could not find any reference. Perhaps you meant Burress? :)

  17. Aix Sponsa Says:

    Even if 822 passes, local jurisdictions can prevent carry.

    Many people are concerned that 822 will become a national data base of gun owners that will be known to and controlled by the BATFE, FBI, etc. and will become the first list of gun confiscation. Obviously MAS disagrees. In the movie Apollo 13, “I don’t care what it was designed to do, I want to know what it CAN do.”

  18. Aix Sponsa Says:

    After reading the links thoroughly I wonder again about the woman’s common sense. She’s 39, licensed by Tennessee so she obviously attended the laws course which emphasizes searching for reciprosity, and she didn’t bother to check. Can this be construed as an accidental mistake? Her mistake was that when she saw the sign, she should have retreated to her hotel and stashed her weapon. Grandpa often said that common sense isn’t so common.

  19. Aix Sponsa Says:

    SUE SUE SUE?? Who’s gonna contribute the $50,000+ to her defense fund and another $100,000 needed to sue the mayor and the largest city in the USA? I am amazed that people actually believe that the average person can fight millionaires and win. Let’s be realistic. It is all unethical under the table money passing, and she won’t win a dime unless the biggies see it as benefiting them. cynical or realistic?

  20. CaptainBob Says:

    “Rich Says:
    I grew up on Long Island and then escaped to New Hampshire via the US Army and Ft Devens. When I was 21 and still lived there I went into a Suffolk County PD office and inquired as to the procedures to getting a pistol permit. They laughed me out of the place.”

    I, too, grew up in NY (Yonkers) and escaped to Ohio via the US Army and Ft. Devens (ASA-You, too, Rich?) and was too young to consider a gun permit until nearly discharge time. As I entered the Army in NY I was being discharged in NY. I inquired about a gun permit (by mail from an APO as I was in VietNam) and asked for forms and info. The reply came back, “Why don’t you just wait until you get back and then apply?” Well, I was bringing 9 handguns with me and knew enough then that I would be illegal if I didn’t have the license first. What I didn’t know (at the time) was that, even after I had successfully pushed the issue and got my license via mail through the Yonkers, PD was that I WAS ILLEGAL AND SUBJECT TO ARREST WHEN I WAS DISCHARGED IN NYC WITH MY GUNS! Fortunately, I made it “over the border” into Yonkers without incident. Even back then (1965) NYC was it’s own little country that didn’t recognize gun permits from the rest of their own State. Scary how some innocent little things could have a life-changing effect on the rest of your life. I was lucky then but, not wanting to press my luck, beat it the heck out of NY State as fast as I could.

  21. Mas Says:

    Thanks for the catch, Randy. Burress is indeed spelled with an “i” and not an “s.”

  22. Gary of Ohio Says:

    Burress was incredibly foolish, having an unlicensed hand gun illegally in New York (not to mention his carry permit had expired had he been in an area where he could have legally carried concealed). He had the Glock in his dress pants waistband (no holster) with the safety off and when it slipped he grabbed for it and caught the trigger, setting it off and almost hitting someone else in the process (from his account in a recent interview).

    What is even more appalling and infuriating is that he has become a spokesperson for the Brady Campaign (we should all regularly check those who are so concerned with removing our rights to self defense). The most idiotic gun owner we could think of who broke all the laws, and rules of handling a gun safely now works to take our rights away, as if he should have any chance to speak after what he did.

    I wish the best to the young lady, but we should all be aware of the legalities concerning concealed carry when we travel. And, Bloomberg has a reputation for being anti-gun, above and beyond the law.

    Mas, my best to you and a sincere thank you for all you do, and for the education you have passed along to many, including me. I hope this year is a turning point for the U.S. and our future, and sanity at least starts to return to this great country.

  23. Dave Says:

    This case “has not yet been adjudicated, nor have results of the investigation been released.” Therefore I’m surprised you did a “a specific entry” on this issue, as it is your stated policy not to do so. (Items in quotes are direct quotes from Mr. Ayoob on Dec 13th stating why he would not comment on ongoing cases/investigations.)

    The link you posted states “Graves was locked up on a weapons-possession charge and held on $2,000 bond that she posted Wednesday. She’s due back in court on March 19th.”

    Double standard when it comes to your brothers in blue it seems.

  24. Cliff Says:

    Her other problem will be if convicted as a “felon”, her MD will be an expensive reminder when she is denied licensure from the medical board for said felony.

  25. Mic Says:

    Soooo, anti-gun politicians are worried this might cause a backlash that and will drive motivation to pass HB 822. Too late. I want massive backlash to occur. This is absurd this women even has to go through this garbage! Turning perfectly innocent people into felons for victimless crimes seems to be a growing past time of the Federal government these days and I think it is about time we take away one of their favorite toys to apply, gun laws meant to snare unsuspecting people and turn otherwise law abiding people into criminals. I hope people create a HUGE backlash over this.

  26. Fruitbat44 Says:

    Speaking from across the pond, the only observations I can add are:

    1. Laws which are, hopefully, intended to protect the law abiding from the criminal, can often end up penalising the law-aibing individual who makes an honest mistake.

    2. Time spent in reconnaisance is seldom wasted. Check on local laws before you travel, although when you’re travelling within your coyntry’s borders this might not be so obvious.

    3. It’s proably a good idea to try and carry medication in a way that it doesn’t look like illegal drugs.

  27. sofa Says:

    Local jurisdictions and state jurisdictions may not ignore the Constitution.
    Can a business, a city, or a state decide on a little slavery, for the common good? NO. The 13th Amendment is the law of the land. And those Amendments are part of the Constitution from which those jurisdictions draw authority.

    The Constitution acknowledges unalienable rights, granted by your creator- It does not ‘grant you rights’. You have unalienable rights as a result of being human. We Constituted this government to protect those rights. Any law repugnant to the Constitution is Null and Void. Any government that makes itself repugnant to the Constitution, violates it’s foundation, thereby rendering itself Null and Void.

    Can a business, a city, or a state decide to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms? No more than they can choose slavery. No Constitutional entity can retain authority by violating the Constitution.

    So any city/state “infringing”- Removes the foundation of it’s authority, and makes itself a ‘domestic enemy to the Constitution’. Such entities are ‘without the rule of law’ by their own doing. Mercenaries in their employ are without legal foundation traceable to the Constitution. Anyone sworn to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic” is duty bound by their oath to defend the American people against these ‘domestic enemies’. Failure to stop domestic enemies, or ‘just following orders’ was not a valid excuse for the train conductors and prison guards at Auschwitz. Nor is inaction valid today in the face of domestic enemies.

    Which is where 2012 finds us. On a declared battlefield (NDAA, section 1301, 1302) without unalienable rights enumerated in the BOR. The NDAA terminated our republic, and declares that the country is “without rule of law”.

    How can NYC declare war on unalienable rights?
    Because they are.
    Because no one is stopping them.
    Because ‘There is no law’, only men.
    Only tyrants violating the Constitution, and their hired mercenaries.

    Each individual chooses, either to bow down and lick their boots and just follow orders, or chooses to stand and demand his own unalienable rights.

    The choices are:
    a) Prison Guard at Auschwitz just doing his job following orders, or
    b) Defend the Constitution against Domestic Enemies, or
    c) Keep out of sight and hope the enforcers do not brutalize you too bad (other than robbing you and your children).

    2012 is time to start to Arrest and Try for Treason those who are ‘infringing’ or otherwise making themselves repugnant to the Constitution.

    2012 is a time for choosing:
    The Constitution and Law?
    or,
    Rule of corrupt men continuing to do as they please?

  28. Wolvie Says:

    Gary,

    A Glock with the safety off…?

  29. Unlce Dave Says:

    Until somebody sues NYC on the basis of discrimination (and wins). Nothing will change

  30. Mas Says:

    It appears that Sofa still hasn’t taken a Civics class, nor had that strongly recommended talk with a school guidance counselor.

    Dave, you’re talking apples and oranges. In this case, both sides have come out (the substance in the medical student’s purse, it turns out, was indeed nothing illegal), and the issue here is a draconian law and sentencing protocol that is far outside the national mainstream. Neither of these things are true of the other case on which you wanted your opinion validated.

  31. shawn w Says:

    i grew up in queens ny, served my country honorably and came home to find out i wasn’t allowed to exercise the constitutional rights i put my ass on the line to protect. so i voted with my feet, and haven’t regretted it for a nano-second. SCREW NYC!

  32. shawn w Says:

    Oh! and happy new year to Gail & Mas. God bless.

  33. sofa Says:

    The Constitution does not grant rights, it acknowledges natural rights granted to each human by the Creator.

    Each person has unalienable rights. The current form of government was Constituted to protect those rights, several of which are enumerated as Amendments, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers. Without those declaratory and restrictive clauses, the states would not approve the Constitution.

    To have “enforcers” ignoring Amendments which form the basis of their authority, and mocking those who bring up the foundation of our Law and writings of George Mason and Thomas Jefferson- reveals that the enforcers are now “domestic enemies to the Constitution” and set themselves against the people.

    Why do enforcers and many locales set themselves against the Constitution? Because thee have been re-educated within a culture of “just following orders”. Look to Auschwitz to see where that thinking ends up.

    Do the government and enforcers have to follow the law? Or is government above the law, if they say they are? Is there a Constitution? Or may clowns in costumes (black and blue) pretend that unalienable rights no longer exist?

    This incident is not “about a draconian law and sentencing protocol that is far outside the national mainstream”- It is about Treason; New York domestic enemies to the Constitution, levying War against the United States (against the individual people and against our form of government as defined by the Constitution).

    Domestic enemies. Some took oaths about that; judges, legislators, enforcers, military men. Some will do their duty to the Constitution. Others make themselves repugnant to that oath.

  34. sofa Says:

    “All laws repugnant to the Constitution are Null and Void”
    -Chief Justice John Marshall, SCOTUS, Marbury vs Madison, 1803

    Without the Constitution, there is no government authority. Without authority under law, there are only men with guns doing what they are ordered to do. “Without the rule of law”, WROL.

  35. Dave Says:

    Mas,

    Did not want my “opinion validated”. Just want your and insight into the inner workings of a PD…how it handles disciplinary issues normally, what is the typical review and dicipline process, what is the standard review procedure for dash cam videos, how do they end up on Youtube, and what/should we expect based on the evidence alone that is available to us, same goes for the partner who stood by and witnessed the abuse and did nothing. Will the full detailed investigation files along with the details of the officers personell files be released to the public? I doubt it…but that seems to be what you’re looking for before commenting. Will the disciplinary hearing transcripts be released to the public? What should a PD do after a first incident of citizen abuse that would prevent the second and third? Is their re-training, counseling, or desk duty typical for an officer after displaying such conduct?

    All of these things can be addressed, without knowing the final results of the disciplinary hearing(the only thing left in this case).

    Hell, the questions listed above for the most part are not even case specific…and NONE of them have to be answered as such. I practically outlined the article for you, not asking for royalties.

    For some reason you won’t touch this. You can just answer the questions, and not give opinion. Only one reason not to that I can think of…

  36. Long Island Mike Says:

    Well here we go again….this time a former Marine asks where to check his gun….how about the prison on Rikers Island?

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/03/marine-faces-fifteen-years-behind-bars-for-unknowingly-violating-gun-law/

  37. Fruitbat44 Says:

    Gary of Ohio, and Wolvie – It is *possible* for a Glock to have a safety catch:

    http://www.tarnhelm.com/GlockSafety.html

    I first came across this notion in an article by some chappie name of Massad Ayoob . . .

  38. Gary of Ohio Says:

    Wolvie, good eye – I was quoting Burress in the recent article – while I know there are aftermarket safeties for Glocks such as what Fruitbat44 noted and those available by Cominalli, and Mas has recommended additional safeties for carry weapons in his concealed carry book (and he has carried Glocks on a regular basis), I don’t believe Burress had the knowledge or forethought to have one on his gun, nor to have had a new york trigger installed with its heavier pull. I am familiar with the brand’s “safe action trigger” and have shot several over the years. Just another point that Burress did not know guns, know his gun or follow the laws.

    This is why it is so infuriating that the Brady Campaign uses this idiot like a poster child against guns, that he is so willing to speak out against gun ownership without embarrassment after his personal stupidity and so unfortunate that he was able to abuse his rights to own and use a gun.

    Fruitbat44, thanks for the note!

    Thanks for all for letting me rant. I find the anti-gun crowd willing to lie without conscience to win and advance their viewpoint – and deem it truly un-American for anyone to do so.

    The president of the Ohio coalition Against Gun Violence was on a special about the new state law we passed to carry concealed in a bar or restaurant with alcohol service. It was quickly evident that she had not read the concealed carry laws nor was she familiar with them, for all the statements made were conjecture and what she “thought” would happen – not realizing that having any trace of alcohol in the system and being in the possession even an unloaded gun is a felony, or that there is a duty to retreat not act like an LEO when something happens and that pulling a gun is the last choice and only done when you can’t escape and all else fails – to save your life.

    So what is the best tact to take when all this happens? I am assuming writing a tactful letter letting the person in question know they were wrong and gently correcting their inaccuracies is the best approach. I am to that point with all that is going on.

    I have let my friends and some of our state representatives who are anti-gun know that there is a reason why so many of us love guns and the shooting sports. I have told them that I would be happy to take them shooting to let them discover for themselves what they are missing. So far no takers, but it sure makes me feel one hell of a lot better and shuts them up, ending the conversation (or lecture on their part), making it a win/win :-)

    All the best, my friends!

  39. Hanza Says:

    In the article it talks about the safety will eliminate or reduce ADs with Glocks. In my mind the ADs are actually NDs due to improper gun handling.

    Firearms safety starts between the ears.

  40. MD Matt Says:

    Dave,
    Mas is a world renowned figure in law enforcement. By withholding commentary until *all* the facts are in evidence, he is doing the responsible thing. He can’t render an informed opinion till he has all the facts. The blog entry these comments reference isn’t comparable to the issue you are razing.
    Mas’s entry discusses facts that are in evidence and that everyone, including the young woman in question, have acknowledged. In point of fact, his entry is directed more toward the law here than this specific instance of its violation.
    The officer conduct issue you have repeatedly raised is an entirely different situation. There very well may be additional evidence (for or against) that hasn’t been made public yet. Mas can’t very well discuss the evolution of the disciplinary review without having both those facts and being able to contrast them with the department’s responses. Asking him to review general procedure for police departments for officer misconduct is very different than asking him to address this specific instance of alleged misconduct.
    This is obviously an important issue for you personally. You may wish to consider that Mas, as a serving officer himself, likely doesn’t wish to vent speculation about a fellow officer in a public forum. His opinions carry more weight in this area precisely because of who he is and how many people listen to what he has to say.

  41. FrankInFL Says:

    Blogged some on this topic: http://dispatchesfromheck.blogspot.com/2012/01/enemy-action.html

    Enjoy.

  42. LeChat Says:

    It is important to note that there are places in the United States where the Constitution does not apply in any meaningful sense. These places include Chicago, Washington DC, and especially NYC. As far as gun owners are concerned, these places are enemy territory.
    Unless you have a lot of money to fight these cases, these areas, while technically within the boundaries of the United States, are best avoided.

  43. Wolvie Says:

    Gary, (and all who mentioned the aftermarket safety),

    Yeah, I am totally aware of this aftermarket feature. As a matter of fact, I am a strong believer in safeties on CCW firearms.

    What I was commenting on was the quote Gary posted because of the irony that the idiot Burress claimed to not have the safety on the illegal gun he was carrying that doesn’t come (in original factory form) with a safety in the first place.

    Yet, he is now an expert for the anti-gunners…

    Well, I think it is divine justice that the anti-gunners hold such high regard and set expert-status for a guy whose only achievements are to not know the features of his own firearm, carry said firearm illegally and managed to shoot himself.

    I would laugh if it wasn’t so sad…

  44. Mark Sampson Says:

    From John Farnam’s Quips.

    Life is challenging already. Don’t make it any worse!

    01 Jan 12

    Low Profile?

    Recently, a tourist from TN was in NYC visiting the 911 Memorial. She, of course, couldn’t help but notice all the “No Weapons Allowed” signs. She was carrying a concealed pistol at the time, being appropriately licensed to do so in her home state of TN.

    She naively approached a security guard and asked him if there was some place she could “check her pistol,” so she could proceed into the Memorial Site. He referred her to a nearby uniformed NYPD Patrolman, and she politely repeated her request to him.

    He asked her if she had her pistol on her, and she replied in the affirmative.

    She was immediately arrested and subsequently charged with a violation of one of NYC’s multitudinous, incomprehensible gun laws and now faces criminal sanctions, including fines and even jail-time. The Case is still pending.

    The lesson for all of us is this, and it doesn’t just apply to NYC:

    1) Don’t approach police officers other than to report a crime or an emergency.

    2) When you do talk with police, be brief and get to the point immediately. Don’t chit-chat. Don’t volunteer irrelevant, personal information about yourself. Don’t answer questions that weren’t asked!

    3) When you’re near police officers, don’t talk about guns!

    4) When carrying, be always discreet, polite, inconspicuous, invisible! Keep that aspect of your life a closely-guarded secret.

    5) “No Guns/Weapons allowed” signs are best ignored! Unless, in order go get into a place you want to go, you’re required to pass through airport-style screening, there is no good reason to pay any attention to them.

    The hodgepodge “permit” system now in place is impossible for anyone to keep track of, and many mayors (such as in NYC) have anti-gun agendas anyway, and instruct their police to enforce them, even when there is no basis in law. None of this confusion/mendacity is likely to be settled, in any comprehensible way, during our lifetimes!

    In the interim, the “Stealth Existence” still represents the best personal policy, unless of course, you relish the thought of being the central figure in a “test case!”

    There are risks associated with carrying guns, whether the practice is technically “legal,” or not. There are also risks associated with not carrying guns!

    You don’t get a risk-free world, nor a risk-free life. Using sound logic, and the best information available, make decisions, and then don’t look back!

    When you do elect to go armed, take heedful note of the foregoing!

    /John

  45. Bob Says:

    Mas,

    I took your LFI 1 class back in ’85, and am now retired in Nevada with an H.R. 218 permit that supposedly allows me to carry in every state. As concealed carry and reciprocity arguments continue, I was surprised to learn that even retired LEO’s with H.R. 218 permits cannot legally carry in some states, even though H.R. 218 is now federal law. As an example, my neighboring state of California does not recognize H.R. 218, and when I called my old home state of MA and spoke with the state police, I was informed that although Mass. recognized H.R. 218, “All jurisdictions may not be aware of it, so exercise caution.” Talk about confusing!!

    Several months ago, I contacted our wonderful NRA, of which I’ve been a member for over 35 years, hoping for some clarification of this matter. But to date, haven’t even received the courtesy of a reply. Perhaps you or your minions with unlimited contacts could shed some light on this, and enlighten the rest of us.

    I guess the purpose of my rant is that if retired LEO’s, who are now granted the right to carry concealed in all states under federal law, still face arbitrary restrictions from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, what chance do other law-abiding permit holders have of ever seeing equitable CCW laws?

  46. BarryC Says:

    From the NRA’s website:
    “After being granted a charter by the state of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded. Civil War Gen. Ambrose Burnside, who was also the former governor of Rhode Island and a U.S. Senator, became the fledgling NRA’s first president.

    An important facet of the NRA’s creation was the development of a practice ground. In 1872, with financial help from New York state, a site on Long Island, the Creed Farm, was purchased for the purpose of building a rifle range. Named Creedmoor, the range opened a year later, and it was there that the first annual matches were held.

    Political opposition to the promotion of marksmanship in New York forced the NRA to find a new home for its range. In 1892, Creedmoor was deeded back to the state and NRA’s matches moved to Sea Girt, New Jersey.”

    Nuf said about the State of New York!

  47. BarryC Says:

    Oh…by the way, I live in the San Francisco Bay area; not the easyest place to be a gun owner but at least I’m not in fear of going to jail every time I take my guns out of my home to go to the range or to the shop.

  48. Mas Says:

    Bob, double check with the FOP or with CA Attorney General’s office. It is my understanding that HR 218, now known as LEOSA, the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act, is alive and well in California.

  49. Tim from CO Says:

    @LeChat- You forgot California on your list :P

    Ironically, I grew up in one of the most liberal yuppie towns California has to offer and yet my favorite range to date was less than five minutes away from home. Best part was sometimes it’d just be the Range Officer and me.

    Live in CO, all the good ranges have a waiting list of a few years. Heck, even going to the mountains it can get busy.

    Glad to see people here who know the difference between ADs and NDs (Accidental Discharge and Negligent Discharge). Drives me nuts hearing on the news about “the gun went off”…. good thing some of us raise our guns correctly so they don’t go shooting on their own accord….

  50. Hanza Says:

    Navy SEAL accidentally shoots self

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20120105/us-navy-seal-shooting/?icid=maing-grid7|netscape|dl2|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D125276

    Failure to apply safe gun handling.

    I’ve owned guns and have been shooting since I was a teen (now 69), and I never have had the urge to put a gun to my head or any other body part. Or at anyone else for that matter.

  51. sofa Says:

    “infringing” is now allowed and enforced by people who supposedly took an oath to the Constitution. Until some do their duty and arrest legislators and enforcers and judges and prosecutors, the law does not exist.; the Constitution does not exist; we are truly “without rule of law” (WROL) until the law is upheld. Thugs do what they please, because they are backed by willing collaborators with guns.

    In the mean time, the 4th amendment is also being killed. Anyone who took an oath should look at current events and re-read your Constitution, and consider their role in unlawful actions.

  52. sofa Says:

    218 permit? 2A says shall not be infringed. Anyone participating in 218 ‘special privileges’ is participating in an unconstitutional segregation of rights.

    822? Unnecessary, as 2A already is in place.

    Without the Constitution, there is no government authority. Without authority under law, there are only men with guns doing what they are ordered to do. “Without the rule of law”, WROL.

    “All laws repugnant to the Constitution are Null and Void”
    -Chief Justice John Marshall, SCOTUS, Marbury vs Madison, 1803

  53. Mas Says:

    Sofa, if your middle school ever makes Civics 101 mandatory, you’ll learn that things don’t work the way you think they should. It’ll be much better for you to find that out in school than in the less-forgiving real world.

  54. MD Matt Says:

    Sofa,
    While I appreciate the strength of your convictions, you may wish to reassess your assumptions re-constitutional “rights.”
    The constitution does guarantee/acknowledge certain rights. But, only to the extent that your exercising of said rights doesn’t impinge on other people’s ability to do the same. We have a judicial system to determine where that line is drawn. That is in fact one of the major checks and balances inherent to the three branch system of democracy. You have the right to free speech for example, but not to the extent that you can yell fire in a crowded theatre. Likewise, the second amendment exists, but only to the extent that legal precedent and local ordinance allows you to exercise that right. As for 2a, I wish it were otherwise, but that’s the country we live in. 2a, like the entire constitution, has hundreds of years of case law, rulings, and precedent which comprise what our legal system says 2a does and does not mean (whether or not you agree with said case law is beside the point.) As for your quote from Justice Martial, he’s right. However what is and is not “repugnant to the constitution” is likewise subject to judicial interpretation.

  55. Carl N. Brown Says:

    I am disturbed at the Mayor polluting the potential jury pool by declaring her in possession of (unconditional) cocaine, not even “alleged” or “suspected”.

    Disturbed but not surprised.

  56. dougR Says:

    NYC dweller here; been here 40 years and own 2 handguns legally (no law-enforcement background, just interested). Was relieved to see a theme showing up in the comments (poor gal, I feel for her, but she really should have checked local laws first). That’s really all there is to say. Will add that in 40 years here, I’ve been mugged twice, and in neither case would a gun have helped; rather it would have made a bad situation MUCH worse in a heartbeat. Also, I have to live here, and I’m content to do so without a bunch of minimally or not-at-all-trained but well-intentioned people around me packing heat; no offense to cc-trained folks who take the responsibility seriously, but the crowd density and building density are unbelievable here compared to anywhere else, far too many opportunities for a misdirected bullet to kill the wrong person. Finally, you stick to the regular tourist areas, you’re safer here probably than in your own town (except possibly from pickpockets), since violent crime here keeps going down. Not interested in engaging in 2nd Amendment philosophical discussions, just saying folks, you don’t need a gun in tourist NYC. (Not trying to sound smart-alecky either; once took an 8 week car trip around the US with a M1911 in the trunk, which I now realize exposed me to numerous opportunities of getting busted for an illegal/unregistered gun.)

  57. russ Says:

    There are several people who have said, she should have checked the local laws. But what if she had, based on her experience and many others in other States, that means she looked at the State level, not the City. In any State that has State Preemption, it would not be unreasonable for a person to NOT realize that some place else is different.

    Additionally, for anyone NOT from NYC, not even NYS, just the City, try to figure out where the City starts and end and where other municipalities do. Manhattan? The Bronx? Richmond County? Brooklyn? Yonkers? Staten Island? Essex County? Long Island? Tribeca? Westchester? Coney Island? Queens? Nassau County? Bergan County? SoHo? Red Hook? Harlem? Hudson? Far Rockaway, Rockaway Beach?

    So it is reasonable, that she may have made a good faith to find and follow the laws and still been wrong.

  58. Bill Says:

    Retired from a County Shrfs Dept. One of my jobs was processing NYS Pistol Permits for my county. After having this assignment for 15 yrs, Range Instructor for 15 yrs, I wonder about NYS. You are finger printed for FBI, NYSDCJ, local PD’s checks, and reference checks, you still can not carry in NY City or out of state. I hope the new law passes so that everyone can cross state lines if you are licenesed to carry a handgun in your home state. Having worked with people moving from one state to NYS and seeing what other state requirements are this law should be passed. When my family travels out of state camping, and traveling, I may not have a handgun with me but my M1 carbine or Mossberg 500 with pistol grip was always close at hand in a motel room or in the camper. family members all know how to use them.
    I would like to see this bill passed, and I hope everyone here supports its passing and also support and join the NRA.

  59. Long Island Mike Says:

    While this is an aging thread, I didn’t want to clutter up more recent posts. Today I feel like I am in Bizzaro world from the old Superman comics. Two articles have me with my jaw on the floor.

    First the TSA detain Senator Rand Paul at the airport. Even though Congress critters are protected directly in the Constitution from detention while traveling to DC. The TSA is simply the best example of a rogue agency next to the ATF.

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/23/report-tsa-detains-sen-rand-paul-in-nashville/

    Next I read this article from today that the NYPD tossed a Navy SEAL into the pysch ward at Bellvue Hospital for claiming he was a Navy SEAL. He also had a pistol in his car and will go to jail in Bloomberg country.

    http://news.yahoo.com/nyc-police-throw-navy-seal-psych-ward-claiming-135225417.html

  60. حظ Says:

    Your web site doesn’t display properly on my blackberry – you might wanna try and fix that

  61. Mas Says:

    Your comment re: the Blackberry has been forwarded to the Webmaster, maybe he can help.

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