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Massad Ayoob on Guns

Want to Comment on a blog post? Look for and click on the blue No Comments or # Comments at the end of each post.



Massad Ayoob

COMBINE CRITICISM WITH CRITICAL THINKING

Sunday, May 1st, 2011

My last blog entry (below this one) touched on the fact that master instructors at an international police conference predicted “Mumbai in America,” and the important part played by good (and sometimes armed) citizens in mass murder situations was mentioned. For some reason, it drew “we don’t trust the cops” sentiments from roughly half of those who posted comments. Twenty-some comments into it, I remarked, “My goodness, the cop-haters are out in force tonight.” That seems to have had the same effect as kerosene on a campfire. Many (including, oddly enough, some who’ve never posted here before) have their panties in a wad because I called some of the critics “cop-haters.”

Well, unless English is not your first language, don’t tell me it isn’t hate-speak when people write that cops “…have proven themselves to be an occupying army.” Or, “I am not proud of the police officers we have today.” Or, “…the stazi, sorry I mean cops.”

First, thanks to those who’ve been voices of reason on the blog commentary here. I hope they return.  And, as for the rest:

No one was happier than the cops when the drunk, off-duty Chicago officer who brutally beat up a female bartender was convicted, and no one more incensed when he only got probation. I don’t know any cop who was saddened when Police Superintendent Eddie Compass resigned under a cloud a few weeks after his infamous statement that he would allow only police to have guns during the Hurricane Katrina debacle.

It’s generally accepted that there are 800,000 cops in this country. In any community that size, some will go bad. That’s why there are police departments, and that’s why police departments have internal affairs bureaus. No one deplores the tiny minority of bad cops more than the vast majority of good ones.

But, read some of the commentary that followed that last blog! Because the politician appointed to head Homeland Security hints that gun owners might be suspect, you should hate the police officer who patrols your neighborhood? Because there’s an anti-cop website that treats every lawsuit allegation, including the most bogus, as if it was proof positive a crime has been committed, no cop should be trusted? Because some people are too stupid to see what’s happening on a YouTube video, they assume it’s police brutality because whoever posted the video said it was?

Not long ago, the Brady Campaign came up with a relative handful of cases where people with carry permits did bad things with their guns, and argued that none of you should be allowed to carry guns because you’d do the same. We both know that’s ridiculous.  So, what possesses otherwise thinking, logical people to apply that same false standard to police, and assume that because a few have done bad things (and some have been falsely accused of doing bad things), no cop can be trusted? The hypocrisy is revoltingly blatant.

Critical comments are welcome here, people, but let’s bring critical thinking to our criticism.

Leave the broad brush of stereotyping in the hands of the ignorant, where it fits so naturally.

 

120 Responses to “COMBINE CRITICISM WITH CRITICAL THINKING”

  1. Dave Says:

    I’m glad you returned to your blog with your usual coolness. I was shocked at how the comments turned to the theme it did, feeding off each other. Where’s the common sense?
    The US justice system isn’t perfect, but it’s the best one out there. And, aren’t we all in this world together? I believe in no god, but I still put my faith in man to do the right thing. I love my self, my family, my community, and my country. If you cross my path, I will give you the benefit of the doubt until I have reason to believe otherwise. Call me foolish. Tell me society will run me over and leave me lying in the dust. I don’ care. Ya gotta have faith, and lead by example, and pack heat when society does try to run you over.

  2. Phillip Says:

    I agree completely, sir. Taking a few bad apples in the police forces and holding them up as typical used to be the hobby of the radical “hippie” left. Now, sadly, it seems to be far more common on the right, especially among Lew Rockwell.com-style Libertarians.

  3. Greg Tag Says:

    Mas:

    Thank you for being a voice of reason.

    The current meme for dividing the population into three segments- sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs is right on point.

    All of us, cops, private citizens, and military, must understand the fact that yes, there are sometimes bad people in our sheepdog community. People who will not behave in a lawful, Constitution – obedient, and mature manner must be corrected ( sometimes they merely need better training ) and those who behave as if the badge, the gun or the uniform place them above the law or common decency should be expelled from the sheepdog class – thats why we have police review boards, courts and courts-martial.

    The fact that there are sometimes sheepdogs gone bad, or those who managed to get classed as sheepdog when they were really sheep with an attitude, or wolves, should not be allowed to discredit the vast majority of us – private citizens who carry out of civic responsibility, peace officers who never forget that their authority stems from their Constitutional office, and military who always keep their oath in mind.

    I hope the foks who have mindlessly slipped into the ” all cops are bad” mentality will stop and listen to themselves, and then condct a little critical thinking. Bad cops are bad, bad soldiers are bad, bad armed citizens are bad; the operational term here is ” bad”, not their sheepdog classification.

    GKT

  4. John and Dagny Galt Says:

    It is a viscious circle perpetrated against the producers by the looters and their hordes of bureaucrats, enforcers, and mercenaries. The looters and their hordes all feed from the loot and booty trough. Welfare looters, warfare looters, tax-feeder bureaucrats, tax-feeder enforcers, and tax-feeder nation-raping military-industrial complex mercenaries…all of these produce NOTHING…just rob, seize, and steal. Spite is shown where spite is due, people choose to commit tax-theft and tax-robbery. Neighbors choose to loot each other, back and forth…and when one or the other refuses…the ENFORCERS bring their guns and threaten MURDER for any and all who shall dare to refuse the looting of the fruits of their labors. Enforcers get paid by enforcing the looting-called-taxation. THOU SHALT NOT STEAL. What part of NO and SHALL NOT INFRINGE is so hard to understand?
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/real-security.html
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/bryan7.html
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/cooper/cooper34.1.html
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/cooper/cooper37.1.html
    http://militantlibertarian.org/2011/02/22/when-tax-feeders-revolt/
    http://militantlibertarian.org/2011/01/23/fewer-snouts-in-the-trough-less-crime-in-the-streets/
    http://militantlibertarian.org/2010/11/29/ddos-and-site-outages/

    Hopefully everyone looking in the mirror knows, and can admit, whether they are a Producer or a Looter. The Producers should congratulate themselves and the Looters should get PRODUCTIVE!

    Starving The Monkeys and Ending The Looterfest,
    John and Dagny Galt
    Starving The Monkeys, Owners Manual For The Universe!

  5. Andy Says:

    It’s the Internet, Mas. Most of them couldn’t say those things to your face without crapping their pants. And yes, that is a stereotyping but it is also true.

  6. Country_Mike Says:

    Many thanks for the smarmy followup column. Perhaps you should just stick to blogging about shooting competitions if other folks opinions are too annoying for you.

  7. Marc-Wi Says:

    Initially I read the blog and first few comments . I just today had a chance to read the rest. WOW! While my experiences with cops have been good some of my friends have not been so lucky. So I see where their coming from.I read about it too. But I reread the last post and I don’t understand what it was you said that caused all the vile to come out.

  8. Tim from CO Says:

    “The hypocrisy is revoltingly blatant.

    Critical comments are welcome here, people, but let’s bring critical thinking to our criticism.

    Leave the broad brush of stereotyping in the hands of the ignorant, where it fits so naturally.”

    Summed the 80 odd comments up pretty well. I’m not sure if it was funny or scary how people will take the small minority and apply it to the majority.

    Yes, there are some bad Officers, there are some bad gun owners as well, heck there are some bad guns out there too! Might as well sing the same tune as the Brady Bunch and get rid of guns all together eh?

    I can only speak for myself here, but I will say this as a citizen. If I see an Officer requiring assistance, I will do what I can to help.

  9. JS Says:

    “Because the politician appointed to head Homeland Security hints that gun owners might be suspect, you should hate the police officer who patrols your neighborhood?”

    When they’re being funded and trained by DHS/Federal government, given surplus military equipment and creating SWAT teams to serve minor warrants, yes I should distrust them. I don’t hate the average officer but I sure don’t respect or trust them. Given current trends I am moving towards hatred, as those officers support (directly or indirectly) a corrupt regime and become revenue generators. How can you tell who is good or bad? You can’t take the risk lest you end up on trumped up charges, “contempt of cop”. I’ll keep my mouth shut and get an attorney for even minor issues.

    The argument that the media (mainstream or otherwise) lies, obfuscates, and promotes agendas doesn’t hold much water with me. I know this completely already from other experiences in politics/life. I don’t buy into every story of police corruption nor “they’re just dirty criminals/terrorists/etc.” by authorities when they make a bust.

    The reason Philip you see more libertarians and conservatives complaining is they’re being harrassed more or seeing it via the internet or first hand from trustworthy friends. I find it more ironic that you have hippies/liberals who promote the “only cops should have guns” line these days after decades of fighting “the man”.

    One can talk about bad individuals all day long among any group of people or organization. What happens though when that whole organization becomes corrupt with only a few good apples? Can you reform it from the inside?

  10. Shy Wolf Says:

    Being one of the commentors about being a cop hater, I still maintain people were not hating on the police- but were definitely making comments about how little they are trusted today.
    Especially in light of how often the USC ruling about police not having to defend a citizen is made. If they’re not hired to protect and defend, then what are they?
    Well, they’re training to be SWAT agents.
    As for the head of homeland insecurity didn’t ‘hint’, she stated.
    A few commented, I among them, how the police leaders in their communities and counties do not support the Second Amendment- and this makes them oathbreakers. They set the example for their troops. How can you trust someone to ‘protect’ you, when they don’t even want you to protect yourself?
    Again, it isn’t that we are cop haters- my son wants to become an officer and I encourage it- it is that we are tired of being treated like second class citizens by our employees. There are many police who shoot with our club IDPA and Steel and they’re always nice to talk with, but are definitely a clique separate from the rest of us. I wish it would change, that neither side had bad feelings toward the other, and it won’t happen if both sides are suspicious of each other.
    Shy III

  11. Wolvie Says:

    Thank you for writing this, Mas.

    I was totally sickened by some of those comments and feel that anyone who broadly labels our police officers like that is either a criminal with an axe to grind, a sad failure living in their mother’s basement with delusions of grandeur and entitlement or simply a keyboard commando who thinks its cool to talk tough anonymously from behind a screen. Regardless, they are people who are not worth my time, effort or attention.

    Thank you for being the voice of reason. Thank you for taking the time to write these articles and thank you for your efforts to educate and explain…from both behind the badge or in front of them.

  12. Z Says:

    “No one was happier than the cops when the drunk, off-duty Chicago officer who brutally beat up a female bartender was convicted, and no one more incensed when he only got probation.”

    This right here illustrates the root cause of people’s negative attitudes toward police. It’s not that it’s a statistical certainty that a few police will commit crimes every year. It’s the Blue Code of Silence and the overall special treatment cops are given when they commit crimes, off-duty or not.

    This practice very obviously creates moral hazard for police officers. These incidents get publicly exposed time and time again. Yet apparently nothing has been done to remedy the root cause. If something has been done, it’s either been ineffective or it hasn’t been publicized.

    This will naturally deepen resentment and mistrust in citizens, especially among armed citizens, for a variety of reasons.

  13. nutz Says:

    Thanks for a rational view across two populations.

  14. Steve Says:

    I missed all of the earlier cop-hater comments.

    My only thought is…why do I feel a sense of anxiety when I see a police car, rather than a sense of comfort? As a child, most of us are taught to respect LEO and see them as sources of potential assistance. Somewhere along the line, I think many of us run into the isolated officer who may not treat us well, causing a more cautious, rather than welcoming perception to become our normal stance. Police over-reaction during the 60’s in places like Chicago did not help that impression.

    JMHO.

  15. Wilson Says:

    I think the question that isn’t being asked is; Why are so many law abiding people cop haters? What makes non-criminals dislike and/or fear cops?

    Merely dismissing complainers as cop haters doesn’t get to the root of the issue. Have there been any serious academic studies on why there are so many people who hate cops? Don’t cops wonder if there might be a way to reverse the trend? Wouldn’t cops rather be respected instead of hated/feared?

    There is no doubt that the Us vs Them mindset exists on both sides of the issue yet no one seems to want to make a serious effort to fix the problem.

    One thing for sure, name calling won’t help solve the problem.

  16. Phil, Gilford NH Says:

    Mas,
    I’m going to take the liberty of apparently going slightly off topic here. But bear with me. I’m going to talk about Wikileaks and its “Collateral Murder” video. You’ve seen the hype, I’m sure. “Apache crew knowingly fires on journalists! Intentionally fires at a van with kids in it!” All the rest of the spew.

    Now, I’ll freely admit to not being a typical YouTuber. But, yeah, I went and I watched the Collateral Murder video. And you know what? If I’d been the gunner in that Apache, and could see what that camera footage showed, I would absolutely have fired on them just like he did. Because, you know what? There’s not one visible sign that these are journalists. Not one. And they didn’t let *anyone* know they were going to be there. At one point, before the Apache opened fire, there’s what MAY have been a long camera lens poking around a corner of a wall, held by a crouching man … or MAY have been the anti-tank missile *that it looked like*. And the Apache crew knew they had friendly armor in the area. And even that aside, there’s no mistaking the AKs that several of the AP journos’ poorly-chosen escorts are toting, and hell, one of them is toting an RPG plain as day. The Apache crew made exactly the right call. They had no way of knowing there was a noncombatant news crew among the armed, unidentified, presumed-hostiles in a free fire zone. There was no visible sign at any point during that video that anyone in the target zone — including the apparent reinforcements who showed up in a van to evac their wounded — was anyone *BUT* an insurgent.

    But look at the comments on YouTube. People who watched that video, with that title, and *who didn’t know any better*, thought what they were de-facto told to think.

    This is pretty much what you get from YouTube. People think what they’re told to think. The Big Lie is not the sole province of governments. YouTube has become, in part, a court of public opinion, and one in which the defendant never gets to speak.

    That said … I fully support 95% of the law enforcement officers who patrol my streets. But I don’t trust the politicians who give them their orders as far as I can throw them by their politically-correct press-conference sound bites. Unfortunately, we have a situation where those who make the law have used it for political ends and, in so doing, have made so much of it either arbitrary, incomprehensible, or contemptible that they have made the body of the law unworthy of respect. When you make the body of law unworthy of respect, that lack of respect rubs off on those whose job it is to enforce it, whether deservedly or not. (And this isn’t helped by an ever-growing emphasis from local governments upon enforcing most zealously the laws which yield the most revenue. Honest citizens, not surprisingly, don’t like being fleeced to fill the shortfall in some local government’s spendthrift budgets.)

    The problem begins at the top. But the solution, I think, begins at the bottom. The comments about codes of silence are right on the mark. To an extent, they are inevitable; but at the same time, they cannot be tolerated. “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” The police must police themselves as strictly as, or more strictly than, they do everyone else. Their position of public responsibility allows nothing else. And, most do. But while one bad apple may not actually spoil a whole barrel, it only takes one or two bad apples to make people start wondering whether the whole barrel is in fact bad.

  17. Aix Sponsa Says:

    Thank you MAS for good sense.
    My son was in the Katrina mess. You ought to hear the stories he has about what really happened. // There are a whole lot of bad cops. Deliberately ignoring criminals, and being law breakers themselves. Our general public dispises the arrogant cops that flaunt their authority like school yard children. Not to mention the revolving door prisons here. Convicted of 5 felonies plus jail break, and out in a year. Cynical?? Me??

  18. dutch Says:

    While it is ignorant and absurd to paint all law Enforcement officers with the tar brush of fascism, it is most certainly true that what were formerly Peace Officers have morphed into Law Enforcement, a wholly different mindset and approach.

    To this I would ascribe the rampant militarization of Police departments everywhere as a large part of the problem, a change in mindset from Protect and Serve to a modified (mercifully) version of breaking things and killing people. This is not to say that Cops have become ruthless killers, although far too many citizens are killed in questionable shootings all across America.

    It is also true, in addition, that as municipalities have formed under (corporate) municipal Law, old-line common Law principles of “keeping the Peace” have been supplanted by the ‘gotcha’ factor in Statutory Law, which most of the time does not allow for the issue of intent, but is rather a cut and dried matter of guilt to be caught in violation of one of the thousands of arcane and usually ridiculous “laws” now on the books. Police officers are expected to produce the revenue to justify their job,. and the Statutes are used as a municipal cash cow, with the police department charged with rounding up the cows.

    Further, urban decay has bred a form of fear of the citizens that produces over-reactions in what are generally simple highway stops. Officers have become belligerent, demanding and rude, and often ask for the trouble they receive. No one has to tolerate abuse from anyone, least of all a Public “servant” who may have stopped the motorist at random, looking for something, anything, with which to issue a ticket, which start, these days, at $100.00 and go way, way up. This happens daily, everywhere.

    I am a grey haired grandpa, not some angry kid. But I am disgusted with the decline of civility and respect among the Police forces where I live. Growing up, such actions would (and did) result in a quick firing and a not so gentle suggestion to seek a different line of work. This is no longer true, and the routine insults to honest citizens are never addressed; It is only the citizen who has decided not to Kowtow to the rude demands of some cop that makes the news, and the cop is always exonerated. We are the citizens here, we deserve respect and should not be made to feel that we are but moving targets in an arcade, waiting to be victimized by some cop short on his quota.

    When Law enforcement goes away and is replaced by genuine Peace officers that are not junked up in Ninja suits and driving a surplus APC, carrying automatic weapons and grenades to bust some kid in a pot house, then will the citizenry feel comfortable, and maybe we can get back to America.

    My two cents

  19. Jasmine Says:

    I too was taken by suprise when I started to read the commentary from the readers of this blog. After seeing the general trend of the commentary, I bailed and went on to something more productive than reading the toxic comments from the posters. Honestly, I was saddened by the tone of the response and hope that the attitude of the respondants was an abboration in attitude of your readers rather than the general concensus. I love your posts and will continue to read them, but I find last nights thinking disturbing.

  20. RegNav Says:

    Z Says: Perhaps if you would idenfity the “root cause” you speak of the rest of us could understand what you are talking about.

  21. Bryan B. Says:

    Wow. Ya have good teachers and bad teachers. Good sailors and bad sailors. Good cops and bad cops. When they do something good, you rarely hear about it. When one does something bad, the media has a field day. A few of them have attitudes, but if I had to put up with the stuff they did I would too. God bless ’em along with our military and firemen. We can’t live without them.

  22. workinwifdakids Says:

    If you do not believe “Any cop, no matter how bad, over any citizen, no matter how good,” then you’re the minority amongst your brothers.

  23. Roger in NC Says:

    Mas,
    I very much enjoy this column for its timely, relevant and often prosaic content. People of like mind visit here to respectfully share observations and experiences regarding current issues. It has become a place as comfortable as my own living room. It was as though someone had hung a sign on the front door stating: “Stupidity Free Zone”. Then this…

    The degree of fear exuding from some of the responses (and continuing in the ones above) is amazing and disturbing. My hope is that it is the current economic and political situation that has frightened otherwise stable folks to their intellectual limits. Some are close to full blown panic.

    Please continue your calming and logical commentary. The nation will heal itself in due time and these fears will pass.

  24. HankH Says:

    Well put as usual Mr. Ayoob. Thanks for all the great posts in your blog; there’s many of us that appreciate them greatly.

    HankH

  25. Andy Says:

    Mas,

    I think Z’s statement above is a good summary of citizens’ grievances.

    I for one would be “okay”- and I’m using that term VERY loosely- with (“bad apple”) cops’ transgressions if they were all prosecuted AT LEAST AS uniformly as a non-cop would be for committing the same crimes…of course the problem, as you’ve already essentially acknowledged, is that this does not happen.

    I know you’re on the side of the citizens, but the “cop hater” remark was hurtful to me. Even if you meant it to be addressed only at “some” commentators, it’s still dismissive to the concept that many others like me who hold doubts need (not just should, NEED) to be taken seriously. It’s wrong to be dismissed as haters on the basis of how we choose to express those doubts.

    And come on- the implication that some of us are “too stupid” to know what’s going on when watching a recorded event on You Tube (not counting videos deliberately edited to mislead opinion, of course), really? You Tube (and its viewers) should not be dismissed either; without them, all we may have to go on are conflicting witness/police reports and buried CCTV evidence like when Erik Scott was shot at a Costco in Nevada, for example.

    I think the biggest message that I’m going to take away from this whole incident is that nobody’s perfect, we should strive to better ourselves, and we should takes times like these as opportunities to remind OURSELVES of this indisputable fact of humanity.

  26. Jeff in WI Says:

    Way to go Mas. You are an excellent ambassador between the law enforcement community general public. As for me, my family, and all those that I call friends, we have the utmost respect and admiration for those that choose to place themselves in danger to protect us. Thank you all for your service.

    As yourself and others have already mentioned, there will always be the bad apples. Only a complete and utter moron would judge the the whole on the actions of the few.

    Keep up the good work!

  27. dsd Says:

    your choice of only responding to those on the far extreme saying “occupying army, or stazi” by taking a few of the comments you didn’t like and applying the broad stroke of we are all cop haters is the same thing you gripe about.

    then to slant it as the negative effect of many who have never posted here – well i guess only the people who can speak out are the ones you agree with? or is it the ones with a badge? or the ones signing your check? which is it? maybe it is just a few who are getting frustrated at seeing the steady loss of our rights? the steady turn of the peace officer into the militant government enforcer and revenue officer.

    until i see the law abiding officers consistently publicly stand and speak out against the law breaking officers then i have reason to feel suspect. if those charged with enforcing the law cannot enforce it in their own precinct then what should we expect? watching a police captain conspire to protect his pedophile friend makes me sick to my stomach. will he be charged on the same exact charges as a citizen? i hardly doubt it based on past cases i’ve followed.

    what i do see is these swat teams that go with no-knock warrants getting awards and commendations for events as messed up as raiding the wrong address or shooting a dog from behind as it ran away. or pointing an assault rifle or shotgun at the face of an older woman washing dishes because they “felt their life was in danger”

    until you and others speak up and say you disagree with those actions then your silence is consent of those actions.

  28. MisterB Says:

    I agree wholeheartedly that we as responsible citizens cannot go around painting groups with a broad brush, such as found in the comments you mentioned.

    However, I have to point out, calling it “hate speech” plays right into the liberal/progressive/socialist agenda. Were the comments horribly uninformed and from a terribly negative point of view? Absolutely.
    As much as I disagree with the comments made, though, I cannot stomach the use of the phrase “hate speech.”

    “Hate speech” is a term used in other (more socialist) countries in order to suppress freedom of expression. I think we should refrain from using the term if we can. Call it “ignorant rantings” or “uninformed stupidity” or any other disparaging term you like, but “hate speech” is opening a door for liberals to call for similar suppression in our own country.

    I believe that the 1st Amendment is just as important as the 2nd, and those two together protect all the rest.

    Thanks for an enjoyable blog, as usual.

  29. Steve Adair Says:

    Mas,
    I cannot imagine how or why any reasonably intelligent, law abiding resident of the US would be a cop hater. These men and women deserve our praise and support and not hatred.
    There are bad eggs in every profession, but it seems like it is worse when a police officer goes bad that is exponentially worse. Even with that said, there is no reason for anyone to hate cops in general because of the actions of a very few.
    I don’t want to even try to imagine what our lives would be like without all of the great police officers in this country.
    My thanks to all of the police officers that put their lives on the line every day.
    Steve

  30. Carl Bussjaeger Says:

    http://carlbussjaeger.blogspot.com/2011/05/ayoob-crams-his-other-foot-into-his.html

    Bullshit, Mas. Answer the questions asked, not the strawman arguments you posed instead.

    And ask yourself why a good cop (Maxwell) can come shooting at my range when you aren’t welcome.

    (now scrubbing my hands with bleach)

  31. Mark Laderwarg Says:

    A Physician gives himself dope, messes up a surgery and kills an infant, gets a DUI and smacks his wife and he gets a slap on the wrist from HIS medical association and continues to practice.

    An attorney gets busted with cocaine, associates with hookers, steals money from his clients and lies in open court and he MIGHT get a slap on the wrist from HIS bar association and continues to practice.

    A reporter does anything you can think of and you will probably never hear about it.

    But, if a cop gets caught with one joint OR, lies to his boss during an investigation OR, has sex on duty OR, gets caught lying in court and he WILL lose his police certification and never be a cop again.

    I have seen all of the above first hand in my 30+ years as an LEO.

    I HATE bad cops, but the facts are that law enforcement is the most heavily regulated profession in the country.

    The high profile assholes with badges always get a lot of press, but the vast majority would take a bullet for you without thinking.

    One more reason that I dislike politicians like Obama and Clinton is the heat they cause the police to get every time they make big brother bigger.

  32. Scott Says:

    I’d challenge the critics of the police to spend a few weeks out on the street, where you don’t know if the next traffic stop will be a lead foot heading home from work, or a man on the run with a shotgun under the seat. These guys are making life and death calls every day. Give them a break. Most of them are doing the best they can, and just want to go home to their families when their shift is up.

  33. Brian, Colorado Says:

    To speak to both sides of the issue:

    Most cops are upholders of the law, sworn to serve and protect, ready to face dangers in the line of duty to protect citizens from violent criminals.

    However, there is also an intrinsic belief in police forces that creates an “us and them” mentality: either you are police or you are criminal. Most cops do not have non-cop friends for very long.

    This creates a dichotomy. Those of us who believe we are cop-supporting, gun-owning, concealed-carrying private citizens look out for our fellow citizen and would not hesitate to use reasonable force to protect the law and the land. But the very cops we support intrinsically believe we are not to be trusted, as non cops, with fire arms. I have many friends who have unlawfully been confronted by cops that they cannot carry weapons in their vehicles, that their round-in-the-chamber hollow point weapons are “cop killers,” that they are breaking some kind of implied law that only cops are allowed to bear arms to defend themselves.

    The issue we face is that we non cops do not know whom we can trust. A change in the general population of the American police force needs to occur to recognize those lawful carrying citizens as fellow protectors rather that threats. When cops stop thinking of us as bad citizens, we can stop thinking of them as bad cops.

  34. capt gooch Says:

    I will second what Z has just said.

    When we “civilians” stop being “civilians” and return to being fellow humans who deserve AND GET Respect then we will have some respect to return.

    When we “civilians” see the law en-FORCE-ment officer who breaks the law being treated the same as us “civilians” and being expelled from behind that “Blue Wall”. When we see them getting the same sentence as we would get for the same crime.
    Then we will begin to have some respect for the profession again.

    All of the talk about “bad apples” is just talk.
    Show us some action on cleaning up the profession not empty words.
    IOW … Clean House so we Can respect our Public Servants in Blue again.

    We “civilians” want our Peace Officers back and the militarized LEO’s gone.

    Why can’t I defend myself for myself with my natural inherent unalienable Right to self defense which is supposedly protected by my local Peace Officer and the Constitution?

    Why can’t a serving LEO Obey the Constitution as it is written and ignore unconstitutional “laws” ? [which are “Null and Void on their face.” Justice Brandeis USSC]

    Obey your Oath to the Constitution.

  35. Glenbo Says:

    Interesting response by Shy Wolf in his last paragraph, where he talks about the police having their own clique separate from other shooters. I’ve seen the same thing, friends who have become police officers and, before they’re out of the academy, already take on that “Us against them” mentality, with the “them” being everyone else. A friend, several years ago, told me when he was in the academy, that one of the instructors told his class that they may as well write off all their old friends, because those old friends would never want anything to do with them now that they are going to be cops. That’s a setup. He changed, and turned his back on the rest of us, and I imagine many of the other cadets did the same because they were told to. In that highly-charged atmosphere of training, the trainees want to do what their trainers tell them to. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wish it weren’t so, but I see it when I’m around cops at the range or at a gun store. They keep their distance from us regular folks, as if we’re lepers. I don’t understand or like it, but I still support and defend our Galveston County Sheriff’s Department, who I believe to be some of the finest to ever wear a badge. And that friend quit the PD where he worked for over 10 years. I don’t know why, since I wouldn’t call him a friend any longer.

  36. Popgun Says:

    Hi, Massad;

    I missed the first post, but I do have a view on the subject.

    The police are, just as you say, composed of mostly good people with a few bad apples – just like the general population. For this reason, when I meet an officer I give them the benefit of the doubt, but I don’t blindly trust them to be a good person.

    The demonstrated potential for pure accidents by the police is a real concern. Here is an interactive map showing hundreds of cases where the police botched SWAT team raids, often by simply getting the address wrong. Many innocent people have died as a result, including people honestly defending their homes under the castle doctrine.

    http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

    Frequently the damage they do is never made right, often not even with an apology to the victims. I personally think the idea that they can just knock down your door and come into your house without warning violates the fourth amendment of the constitution. The police’s highest priority should be to do no harm to the innocent. I’d rather the bad guy get away than to see an innocent person die during a hot pursuit. You can catch the bad guy later, but the dead innocent person stays dead.

    And when this happens, the police should pay the same penalty a private citizen would in similar circumstances.

    No human agency will ever be 100% trustworthy. That doesn’t mean that the rest of them are evil – it just means you have to recognize this, and hope those you meet are the good ones, and be prepared to take legal action to defend yourself, if not.

    And for the good cops out there – kudos to you for doing a dangerous job to the best of your ability.

    Am I cop hater? By no means. Do I blindly trust someone because he’s a cop? Of course not. But most of the time, they are good people.

    -Popgun

  37. Vince D Says:

    Mas,

    I have seen all sides of the equation.

    The idiot with a pencil and a badge, the corrupt and on the take, and the honest hard working officer that I think most Cops are. I hate the word police officer, to me respect is given when I call a badge wearer a “Cop”. If I call you a “Cop” that means I respect you. Others may take it differently, I don’t know or care.

    If you want to talk crooked law enforcement I ony have to look in to my family history. Love them, yes. Respect for my family members that wore a badge, no. I think what we are seeing today is the manifestation of society getting fed up with government. Being that uniformed police officers are the front line government troops, it is only natural that they share the brunt of the displeasure.

    The goal and task of law enforcement is to use what people say and do against them. That sets the stage for distrust right from the start. Then when you add a few bad apples, combined with society’s laws that stifle the honest working citizen I think it is only natural that such discord is in evidence.

    I would like nothing more than to never have to call a police officer to solve problems that I am equiped to handle on my own. However such is not the case due to our laws and system of jurisprudence. Yet when I do call to report something I am often viewed with suspicion and told to do things that are not for my safety, and are in fact downright detrimental to my safety. If my local law enforcement isn’t concerned with my safety, why should I be concerned for their’s?

    Sadly, while a uniformed LEO is one of the few groups of people I will assist without question, their assistance to me is suspect. They are often more interested in what charges they can bring forth against me. It doesn’t help that your local LEO is insulated from society by a vehicle with windows rolled up and air conditioner set to “Feezing” and running from call to call. I have seen the lack of respect firsthand towards those they serve, by law enforcement. It is actually quite common, and disheartening.

    Is this lack of respect criminal? No, not to my knowlege. What it is however is very telling. Some of the served are getting tired of the servers and the way government manifest itself. Take care and stay safe Mas. I’m sorry I missed you last month at your MAG class.

    Vince

  38. Charlie Says:

    I use to believe you were a man of truth and reason.
    Purchased every one of your books and have reread them
    many times.
    I just tossed them all in the trash.
    This will be the last of your missives I will read.

    Charlie

  39. Savaship Says:

    Mas,
    That was a well though out, only mildly offensive response to your last blog entry.

    What people want is what our founders wanted for us, equality under the law, or in short, liberty and justice! I would love to trust police officers, but the short skinny of it is that doing that can cost you more money than you make in a year, or even your life! Is it right that police have more privileges, and protections under the law, with less consequence, and higher than average GDP per capita pay?

    I have a few friends that are police officers, whom I do trust. But when you watch 12 other officers that you don’t know, arrest your Army veteran fiancee on felony “Aggravated Unlawful Use of a Weapon” charges for having an unloaded fully cased pistol under her back seat on her way to a firearm repair shop, while they have fully loaded, rounds chambered firearms on their hips, all because she interpreted the law’s writing of “within reach” differently than the officers… You start to wonder why the law protects them “better” than it does her, why the law affords them more privileges than it does her. When it costs you over $50,000 to fight that case in court, and find out the Police officers are getting Time-and-a-half to be there… you REALLY start to wonder why the law compensates them better than you. When your fiancee loses her job just for being under felony investigation, and you watch Officers like John Killackey point a gun at someone while drunk in the same general area as your fiancee was busted for not even touching a gun… and you see that officer keep his job… the us vs them mentality kicks up ten-fold.

    You see Mas, it’s not that people have blind hatred, it’s that a lot of people have been victimized, and have no recourse other than to move to the country, or become agoraphobic… When you get a lot of victimized people, you get a lot of anger. Instead of calling us out as “cop haters” or watch your peanut gallery give you verbal dutch rudders, why not post on ways we, the victims of the police forces of the United States of America can healthily deal with our victimizations?

    That’s it… that’s the challenge! post something constructive for us victims! Suing costs too much money and lawyers are reluctant to take up cases against cops that haven’t been caught on camera, and the chiefs are only interested in protecting the department’s image… So help me find another way for us victims to if not get justice, then at least to heal.

  40. woodsman1st Says:

    The cop haters are always ready to pounce; normally when its not called for; these same cop haters never commend any LEO for a job well done; nor do they ever express any sorrow when a LEO is lost in the line of duty.

    It’s just too bad that some kind of record can’t be kept on this verimin so when the day comes that they have to call 911, all the LEO’s are busy elsewhere. However, to the LEO’s credit, they would still do their best to help even the cop haters.

    To the LEO’s of America, the majority of patriotic Americans stand with you. Jobs well done.

  41. Jack Zeller Says:

    Thank you Mas…perfectly said! Jack

  42. Mark Says:

    “Am I a fool, or did the word think escape your lips?”
    Unfortunately, thinking is not the most popular of pastimes these days.

    My CC instructor is a LEO, btw. Great guy. We should all be so fortunate.

  43. Matt, another Says:

    It seems that the police fraternity is undergoing the same identity problems as modern Islam. Islam is often reviled because of the actions of very few radicalized individuals and their radicalized clergy. Police are often reviled because of negative actions by a few radicalized individuals and their radicalized leadership.

    The answer to both problems is the same. The good cops and moderate Muslims need to clean house, be vocal and visible and change the problems from the inside.

    Anytime a police officer conducts an act, in the line of duty, that is seen as quesionable by the citizens, then that act needs to be examined fully in the light of day as a questionable act by a citizen would. To often we see questionable acts done by officers then their department close ranks around them and defy anyone who questions the conduct. To often what would be criminal investigations for citizens are only “internal” investigations for the police that then seem to be rubber stamped as okay. Even when an investigation is handed off to another agency it is handled invisibly and when the fining of all is good is handed down, the citizens are expected to shut up and move along.

    I’ll reiterate, the only way to fix what is seen by many as a “perception” problem is for the police to fix it themselves.

  44. Russell, Stirling, Scotland Says:

    Mr. Ayoob, you are right. Hate is a very divisive and unhelpful emotion. I would suggest that it is fuelled entirely by fear. While fear is very valuable in keeping use alive, when it degenerates into hate the survival value all but disappears. Sadly, in today’s world, positive role models and the professional training necessary to dampen the all too human slide from fear to hate is severely rationed. However, you sir are a stellar example of a role model with such training in abundance and I am very grateful you have chosen to share your thoughts and knowledge with us.

    Tim at Tim’s Cogitorium has a nice little piece on his blog called “Fear Sells” (timscogitorium.com/tinblog/2011/03/fear-sells.html) .

  45. Jerry, Glendale, AZ Says:

    I appreciate a little critical thinking from you Mr. Ayoob. I used to be an Anti-Cop person myself because of running into a lot of “bad” cops as a youngster. I must say that the older I get the more I realize that what made most of my encounters bad was motivated by my own “bad” decisions. From meeting more and more cops I have come to realize that they are mostly good fellows. So I think that the sentiment may not be so deserved as the media (and alternate media) paint them.

  46. Fred Squillante Says:

    I’m agnostic when I see a LEO. I legally carry but would rather not be stopped and tell him I’m legally carrying. You never know how they’ll react. On a broader note. Didn’t Ms. Napolitano (DHS) brand our ex military as potential terrorists, so you know how she feels about civilian carry. Now there’s the ATF supplying the Mexican cartel and blaming it on the stores they did the straw purchases from. Until Obama gets out, I do not trust my government anymore.

  47. DocJHolliday Says:

    I have read plenty of stuff here, and I have to say that some people will say “Survivalist Nut” for those that choose to prepare for the worst. I don’t think that’s the case, but there are some “Nut Cases” that prepare to do the worst……….. but that’s Not what most people are all about. Most of the people are decent people, but maybe I should brand them all as “Survival Nuts” that are out to get me. Some people would complain about how unfair this would be, but I have left other forums because of hateful people that I didn’t want to mix with, because I have better things to do.

    Now there are a group of people who seem to think that every police officer is out to get them and would like for all police officers to be fired. I had a bad dealing with a police officer (off duty) and his brother, back in the 80s, and after they were convicted, the brother got 4 years and the police officer got 8 years, for the same crime, because as the Judge said, “He knew better than to do what he did”. I was an on duty police officer at the time and I’m still working as a police officer, so when I hear people that are so hateful towards the police, I have to wonder if they feel the same way about people of certain ethnic groups.
    After Katrina (less than 50 miles from New Orleans), we were also without telephone or radio communications, and the general public was offering to help us if we needed help. Any community that I have worked in, has always been supportive of the police and I’m glad that none of the hateful people from online have lived where I worked. There are a few hard core criminal types in every community, but the good always out number the bad. I don’t know what the Hateful types expect of us, but I’m glad that I have a much better working relation with my community, and I wondedr what they would say about the comments on here. We didn’t take guns after Katrina and I would have Refused! As far as Homeland Security calling the shots, they Never will with me, especially with an extremist in charge. When talking about SWAT equipment, some people would have us go around without ANY guns, or be facing criminals that are better armed, like in the North Hollywood bank robbery……… That’s Not going to happen to me. I could take a position that only the police should be armed, but I have always said that the 2nd Amendment was an Individual right, even before Heller. If it makes you feel better to not trust me, then go right ahead, but when I work, you would be the odd ball.
    I will always be equipped with the best equipment that I can get, and you can do the same, and I have no problem with it. I’m of the opinion that All decent people should be armed.
    Say what you want and trust who you want, but I don’t worry about online warriors that hate me for no reason……… but then you will find someone to fight with out there if you look hard enough. I do wonder if any of these online hate mongers wear white sheets.

  48. Michigan Swampdog Says:

    Let me see…cophaters read about combat-booted, black-clad, masked ninjas with badges shooting family pets at the wrong address, burly police officers body-slamming a frail elderly woman to (illegally) disarm her, New Orleans pd cops turning on citizens, murdering them. Cops gunning down a (Gulf War veteran) cpl holder in a Las Vegas Costco parking lot. The illegal, unConstitutional, so-called “war on drugs”, is in actuality a war on freedom. The thinking here is: “If it makes you feel good, we must make it illegal!!!!!!” Cops seem to be more interested in busting pot-smokers instead of going after real criminals. Did you know that there has never been a death due to marijuana use? None. Nada. Zilch. Except, that is, for cops shooting them! There is no known overdose amount. It doesn’t react with any other medication. It has been used as medicine for six thousand years with success. Until the 1930s, when William Randolph Hearst copped an attitude re: Mexicans. That’s how it became illegal. Because of idiots. And the idiots are still in charge, so we are #%@*&wed until we can vote them out. Pot smokers are non-violent, so it’s much, much safer than arresting a rapist or a robber! I could go on and on with more cop-horror stories, but what would be the point? One percent of all professions are occupied by sociopaths anyway, so it isn’t any wonder that most of us don’t like cops. The bad ones seem to speak for the rest of them. Until the United States Constitution is recognized by ALL cops and enforced to the letter and the spirit, I will dislike (most) of them. Where do you stand, Mas, with the forces of tyranny, or freedom?

  49. chris Says:

    My son is a patrol officer in a larger Midwest city. I didn’t raise him to be a low life drunk ahole that beats people up. He knows right from wrong and I think was born to do what he does night after night, with INTEGRITY. I’ll ask the cop haters out there, what do you propose? Who will be your proxy to enforce the law?

    I pray all the times that if he’s in trouble, that someone on the street steps up and helps him.

    A Dad proud of his Marine / cop son.

  50. Midwestern Reserve LEO Says:

    Look around your areas. More agencies than you would think have reserve programs, most LEOs are happy to have them with budget cuts and giving them less manpower on the streets.

    Police use of force issues could be cut just by putting two officers in a car, a lot of escalation of force issues are caused by scared officers who are by themselves. An officer is a lot less likely to escalate force if he has a buddy to help.

    Help make the powers that be comfortable with the idea that citizens are part of the solution. Become a reserve, have a CCW, go to public safety events, go to your local department’s citizens academy, go on a ride along with the local constabulary, when you travel by air check a firearm so the TSA is used to dealing with it and perceives it as normal. Do what you can, if you want to wait for others to unscrew themselves you will wait a long time.

  51. CitizenAlso Says:

    Hey Mas,

    I’d love to see a more thoughtful response to your other post’s very thoughtful comments, rather than dismiss them as ‘cop haters’.

    Truth is, cops are very much a separate class of citizen these days, who seem to view those they’re supposed to be serving with varying degrees of contempt. The odds that I personally (as a middle-aged, white-collar business owner and employer) will be harmed by a common criminal are minute, but I feel fairly well prepared to defend myself against them. The odds that I’ll be harmed by a law enforcement officer are materially greater (weather they’re enforcing the one of the crushing number of criminal victimless statues on the books, or simply lashing out for insufficient “respect”), and I can’t defend myself well against that. The entire system is stacked against us.

    Law enforcement is now the greatest threat to a regular citizen’s life and liberty, and many of us who pay attention realize that. That’s why we don’t unquestioningly support law enforcement anymore.

  52. Will Cushman Says:

    The law enforcement mindset that many officers adopted of “We are the police, all others are civilians” seems very wrong to me. We are all civilians, unless we are in the Armed Forces.

    Militarization of significant parts of the law enforcement community has widened this divide. The anti Second Amendment stance of the International Chiefs of Police Assoc, and others, such as the California Police Chiefs Assoc. have caused distrust among those of us who believe in the Bill of Rights. Yes, these are the Chiefs and not the rank and file but they ARE the leadership of their departments.

    Law Enforcement and the people they are sworn to protect need to become one again- not separate, adversarial camps. Most ‘citizens’ are not the enemy, just as most LEOs are not bullies-the enemy is the criminal.

    And yes, I have worn a badge, worked Patrol and made arrests. an

  53. dsd Says:

    May 1, 2011

    watch as the riot police start their march and start pushing and plowing into tiny 90lb girls on the lawn etc… i’m sure those armed swat teams were afraid for their lives.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufKv-5t0t4E

    what do you think of this mas? a whole college of cop haters right?

    if i sprayed someone with mace for coming onto my lawn – the cops would be there to arrest me.

    so, maybe there were a few that were out of control? instead of addressing the offenders – automatically the whole crowd is deemed guilty and then any amount of force to make them bow to the system is a-ok i guess.

    for those of you who think police abuses do not exist what if your kids had been in this crowd and treated this way? – as it is always those BLIND to what is happening in our country that only open their eyes when and only when IT HAPPENS TO THEM.

  54. Chuck Says:

    Your’e a damn good man Mas,
    I’m guessing that the ignorant few have something to hide. They always have something in the back of their mind (did someone see me buy that weed?). The internet gives us an easy way to vent frustration but some of the same would never pick up the phone or call the local PD Chief to make a complaint for fear of reprisal(we both know how far a real complaint goes). Most of the whiners are sheeple. I belive they are the the ones still forwarding the email about the new US coin that had “IN GOD WE TRUST” Removed. And they send it with the SNOPES link attached! I guess we can only do our best and wish I had known your were gonna be in SieraVista.

  55. Mick Says:

    Hello again, Mas. Yes, I was one of those who hadn’t written to you before because I had nothing to add to you insightful, intelligent articles, shether on local matches or legal challenges. I took issue because I don’t like to be fearful of someone I should trust. Naivete’? I don’t know; I just don’t like being pulled down on for no earthly reason, and that was my experience. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I acted as a child—and had been drwn down on for damn good reason. That was over 30 years ago. Now over 31 years clean and sober and in a different area there is no earthly reason to do that–nor for the cop to drop his guard if he thought it necessary in the first place merely because I was in my profession’s uniform. I haven’t read all the entries; I have a life. But having seen what some cops do “because they can” in the ER as well as hearing braggadocio, and my own experience, I just don’t see or sense what should be our brothers in arms the way I did when I shot rings around some of them in PPC, and had my hat handed to me by cops and Dick Heinie too! I wish you peace and continued grace and honor, and will try to live my life the same–with eyes wide open.
    Simcerely, Mick

  56. James Robertson Says:

    “My only thought is…why do I feel a sense of anxiety when I see a police car, rather than a sense of comfort?”

    And you weren’t nervous when the school principle came by your room even if no one in your class was in trouble, but simply because he was THE authority? I know I was, and I was never in trouble at school.

    It is human nature to have an inborn dread borne of recognition of one who has power and authority, even if he is just and right in his dealings.

    Just because you feel a little nervous when there’s a cop traveling behind you doesn’t mean you’re rightly fearing corrupt abuse of authority. That little feeling isn’t enough to justify the accusation.

    I will judge each cop based on the thing he ought to be judged upon: his fruit (that is, what he himself does). I’ve met a few cops who I thought had a bit more of an attitude than they should have had for someone who just had a simple question or was simply tired and almost home and just a little puzzled as to why his usual intersection turn was shut down, or whatever. Then again, in retrospect maybe that cop was having a long night too and his tolerance of “complications” was as low as mine that night. Hey, it happens. Doesn’t make them all “anti-civilian scum”, which is the general attitude I saw prevailing in the last thread.

    Something I have sadly noticed among a fair number of those who call themselves conservative (or especially among those who will outright call themselves libertarian…. though I will NOT say that ALL libertarians are like this) is the willingness to not just be skeptical of governmental institutions but be outright HOSTILE to most forms of enforcement authorities and be willing to take the slightest mishap and blow it up into a conspiracy that demands that we have no trust for those who carry the badge. The wide-eyed conspiracy generating and believing types are sadly becoming a bit too common (or more outspoken) these days.

    I try and maintain a healthy skepticism. But the downright anarchist sentiment is disgusting. Especially when one begins his screed with “I’m not a cop hater…” and I know the next word I’ll read will take that totally away with a simple 3 letter word called “but.”

    Mas, you nailed it with this “The hypocrisy is revoltingly blatant.”

    I will say that the outburst of one officer towards the end of that comment stream WAS crossing the line, however it only shows he is human and was just fed up with the degrading insults being thrown towards his profession and fellow officers and himself included by being of their number. Dealing with mostly criminal trash all day to come home to folks who are supposed to be the good guys throwing rotten tomatoes in your face because they saw a youtube video is enough to probably push ANY guy over the edge into a profanity-spewing rant.

    That officer has my sympathy, not my condemnation.

    ~James from Phoenix

  57. Chris E. Says:

    Mas

    Great blog, Always interesting and I like the way you look at things. It’s very rare that I visit comments and I was shocked when I checked them out tonight. I didn’t realize cops were beating and killing people in every town all across the country. Sounds like theres armys of them marching around taking down anyone in there path that does not show them proper respect. Middle-aged, white-collar business owners and employers are cowering in the back room because they feel cops are more of a threat to them then criminals……..

    My Dad sat me down when I was 16 and about to get my first car. He said some things that I actually listened to. If I get pulled over by the police, don’t give him any lip! He will be full of attitude, don’t give him any lip! He will feel the need to totaly control the situation, let him because he will feel safer and therefore be in a better mood as things progress and don’t give him any lip! You may or may not have done what he claims, If you did it then shut up! If you didn’t then say so calmly and then shut up! You don’t need to call him sir but don’t call him something less than sir, just yes and no work fine!

    Good thing I listened because I got pulled over a lot. I was always getting pulled over for something I did or was in the process of doing. I got a lot of tickets, a lot more then most people but less then I deserved. I also got arrested a few times for not paying some of the ones I got. I also have been involved with several incidents not involving vehicals, all those ended in 1 minor arrest.

    So I have been on the wrong side of the law more then most but always remembered what my Dad said. I don’t give cops any lip and I don’t have to call a cop sir but I never call one anything less then sir. I have yet to meet one of these storm troopers everyone talks about. I have never had a cop search my car with or without my permission, no cop has ever even asked to. I have only had one cop get in my face, I stayed calm and he calmed down. Turns out he had a bad day, had to deal with some things nobody should have to deal with. I have no idea what a tazer looks like out of it’s holster. Almost 30 years of run-ins with the cops and at no time did I feel like I was in danger of anything that would not of been my own doing.

    Even though I am older now I still get pulled over a few times a year, usually for speeding or I forgot about my sticker or plates running out. But I have not got a ticket in at least the past 10 years (: I can tell an on-coming cop that has pulled me over in the last 10 years or so because he/she waves and I wave back. And no, I am not white collar or a business owner. I don’t dress well, the more warn out the more comfortable in my book.I should of had a hair cut at least a year ago,I just have not bothered.I usually drive old beaters. I am nobody, I can’t do anything to help anyone move up in there department and I am not a member of any board that can increase funding for anything. I don’t know who deals drugs so I can’t help there. I own lots of guns and hate a lot of people that are in office from local goverment all the way up to president and I am not shy about saying so.

    Why have I not met any of these thugs in uniform that everyone is so afraid of ? I know there are a few out there but the way everyone is talking you would think every town was full of them…. Here is a little tidbit you may want to think about, you are safer on the side of the road at night with a cop next to your drivers door with his hand on his gun wondering if you are lifting up your drivers license to hand him…or a gun to shoot him then you are going to your doctor………

    and remember, don’t give cops any lip and you don’t have to call a cop sir but never call one anything less then sir. The calmer you are the calmer the cop will be and he/she may listen to your story instead of tazering your ass to shut your mouth

  58. Mas Fan Says:

    Mas, In spite of all the Cop bashing…My faith in our Police remains intact. Im fairly sure that 95% of them are honest, hard working and joined the force to play by the rules. Most work an entire career and claim the pension that they earned. I know abuses occur, I hope they are to the minimum.

  59. dsd Says:

    “Mas, you nailed it with this “The hypocrisy is revoltingly blatant.”

    I will say that the outburst of one officer towards the end of that comment stream WAS crossing the line, however it only shows he is human and was just fed up with the degrading insults being thrown towards his profession and fellow officers and himself included by being of their number. Dealing with mostly criminal trash all day to come home to folks who are supposed to be the good guys throwing rotten tomatoes in your face because they saw a youtube video is enough to probably push ANY guy over the edge into a profanity-spewing rant.

    That officer has my sympathy, not my condemnation.

    ~James from Phoenix”

    so citizens being fed up with degrading treatment being thrown towards them is ok? a citizen can be treated like a convicted felon because there may be some out there somewhere in society? it sounds like the same thing to me – if cops can treat everyone as a potential felon then citizens can treat every cop as a potential bad cop.

    citizens deal with the bad of society too… yet while the majority of officers are fair and decent people – i don’t see the good officers doing anything about the ones who are not so well behaved. do those good officers also come to the aid of a citizen against an officer not behaving well? i’ve unfortunately never seen it. i see paid leave, cover ups and i don’t see the effects any of those good officers standing up and trying to police their own. often, it seems the good officers get fed up and leave the system. i understand of course there is fear of reprisal in the police force no different then in the private sector or as a citizen. internal investigations sadly often seem to be about as effective as the ones done in our own congress and government… i.e. not very.

    too many citizens get lumped in with the “criminal trash” despite having done nothing to deserve it. it is a frustrating situation from both sides.

    that last video i posted – happened on May 1, 2011 – just two days ago now – i’m still waiting to hear any law enforcement or mas say it was excessive use of force or not… to condemn the actions show – or is the silence your form of consent?

    what type of event precipitated that response? i did not see any students running in fear for whatever brought the riot gear out – oh i know… “it was all editing” all in the desire to show the swat and riot team as the bad guys.

    you can clearly see the officers walking around calmly beforehand, unloading gear etc – nobody at all looked in a panic or worried for their safety – the bemused students all standing around watching the spectacle… until the march begins and then the once passive students are suddenly declared the enemy to be squashed into submission.

    all i know is when i watch that video – i don’t see law enforcement in fear of their lives or even for their safety – i see a practice run.

    THAT is what worries me. THAT is what prompted my concern in these posts about the increasingly militant police force.

    i would prefer the legal system stop the revolving door criminals process too – but that same revolving door process is what lets our politicians and even law enforcement continue their path of growth and increasing power. THAT is what worries me. there is no need for a sheepdog unless there are a lot of wolves. i.e. the constant re-release of hardened criminals are a useful tool to these growing political and law enforcements on society.

    so mas, and others calling everyone cop haters for these citizens being equally frustrated with how the system is treating them – so here’s the big question for you – IF the powers that be suddenly tell you to disarm the public? would you do it?

    would you resist? would you yourself get arrested refusing to follow orders?

    so, lets say you agree and follow orders – how far would you go? – after all if they suddenly pass a law by whatever means that outlaws firearms for citizens – you are just enforcing the law right?

    so then what? as long as it is a “law” then do you follow? i just don’t know where it ends. there seem to be too many public servants willing to abuse the very public they are supposed to be serving. we citizens want to feel the police officers we have been taught since childhood are on our side. so are you?

  60. Rob R. Says:

    I categorically reject your cop bashing. It has been said that less than 5% of police officers are corrupt and doing things that bring shame to the office. Yet you hate and bash us. On the same vein, less than 5% of the population are felons, so does that mean we should hate and bash you? Don’t generalize us and then expect us to not generalize you. I work with different departments all the time and I’ll tell you one thing for certain: When a bad cop is caught and on the news we are the first ones to condemn them and hope they get slammed by the courts. We don’t like corrupt cops any more than any of you do.

    For me there is no “us” and “you”. There is “we”. The police are ineffective without the help of the citizenry. The citizenry is ineffective without the police. when you realize that, then you will be mature. Then you will be effective. I am effective because I work with the citizens of this great country to make it better and make it safe. How about you work with us to accomplish the same.

    If you find a corrupt cop, please continue to expose them! They are the shame of any department and we are well rid of them. Do not judge us all because of the ones that make the news doing bad things. That would be exactly the same as saying “We only see black people doing bad things on the news so all black people are bad.” That would be wrong and everyone acknowledges it. Don’t lump me in with the bad ones.

    Oh, and thanks to those showing some independent thought. It’s nice knowing that at least some of the people we serve actually appreciate it. It’s a honor to serve you.

  61. Bob from Illinois Says:

    Every cop is a creep and cannot be trusted is just as true as every priest is a pediphile, every republican wants to eat your children and every rainbow has a pot of gold at the end of it.

    Hats off to all law enforcement and military peronnel who work diligently every day dispite the loud crys from a vast minority of haters who would have them be non-existant and then cry the loudest demanding help whenever there is an emergency.

    For those of you who know the story of the wolves, the sheepdogs and the lambs occassionally a sheepdog will eat a lamb. That doesn’t make the sheepdogs fighting the wolves your enemies.

  62. Marty Says:

    Thank you for being a voice of reason and addressing the haters.

    I am not a police officer, but I appreciate the many brave and honest ones that we have.

  63. w.hill Says:

    to dsd look up oath keepers. yes some will blindly follow orders,some will not.we have to hope there are more nas,than yeas.

  64. Scott G. Says:

    Often, we do not interface with law enforcement under the best of circumstances. Either we perceive we are a victim of a crime or we are questioned about some event with some emotional baggage attached to it. Sometimes, our immediate action during some perceived wrong can place us in jeopardy under the law or at least within the scope of probable cause. I have learned to keep my cool when I have to deal with law enforcement.

    There have been times when the officer is not fully aware of all aspects of the criminal law or they fail to get a report to the prosecutor’s office. I had a recent event where the officers thought the wrong committed was a tort and not covered under the criminal law. It took some patience and time including speaking to the right people. I did not spend a great deal of time trying to convince the police. They created a complete and accurate record and the prosecutor got the conviction.

    Police are helpful if they are there for the event. Otherwise, they are data collectors. It is not reasonable to expect police to solve problems that are now under the control of another office.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that people are not always very accurate about the details of events. The time line can be wrong, they may lie about certain details or they may embellish to attempt to elicit a more immediate response.

    I have seen some police do a bad job, as I have seen people in all professionals fall short of commonly expected levels of performance. Some of the best among us come up short sometimes. I do the best I can at my job and have multiple credentials, but I sometimes come up short. It does not happen often, and I would hate to have my entire life summarized by a bad day.

    I recognize it takes a special sort of person to deal with the affirmative duty to act. It creates the potential for a unique sort of encounter since the rest of us can simply look the other way or flee.

  65. paradox Says:

    The only lack of critical thinking I see is coming from the author of this article, Massad. The sophomoric attempt to portray concerned citizens as “cop-haters” is the exact arrogant behavior people are currently irritated at when dealing with law enforcement (should be peace officers). Do you really have nothing to debate concerned citizens with? You have can only dismiss their concerns with a personal insult, via the pejorative, “cop-hater.”

    Mr. Ayoob you mentioned Katrina as a point of how cops did good. Well they didn’t, officers could be seen on film looting from a Wal-Mart. Then the removal of citizen’s right to bear arms. Total violation of the Constitution. Why was the unlawful order to confiscate firearms followed? Since you Sir, have descended the debate into the sophomoric, and I am now addressed as a “cop-hater.” The cops that illegally collected citizen’s firearms during Katrina should be addressed as “Constitution-haters.” This pejorative is a more logical application to oath-breaking-cops, then the “cop-hater” was applied to citizens.

    Several posts gave logical thought out reason as to why we do not need anymore officers. Open carry for the citizenry, the cost of adding new officers. I’ll even add citizen review boards, get the investigations of officer wrong doing out of the departments.

    Americans see more and more cops conducting not just assaults, but not taking the oath to the Constitution seriously. If a law is unconstitutional (collecting DNA with out a warrant etc). Don’t do it, refuse the order or find a Constitutional way, get other officers to do the same. I will enthusiastically support any officer who protects the Constitution.

  66. Mark Harrison Says:

    I think that another facet of the problem is that we’ve passed so many vague, and ill-defined rules, regulations, and laws, it’s almost impossible for anyone to go about their daily business without violating some ordinance. Bring a police officer into your world, and he can easily arrest you for something, even though you don’t think you’ve been doing anything wrong. It’s no longer law-abiding people going through life without any fear of tangling with the authorities. It’s fear of running across a cop who is having a bad day, has it in for a particular person, or needs a pinch for political purposes. Add the ability for an officer to arrest someone for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace, and you’ve given that officer almost unlimited power to disrupt, or destroy someone’s life with very little

    The most intelligent thing to do is to keep those officers far away from you. If they’re not in your world, they can’t find reason to get involved in your life. That’s why I carefully control my daily routine. I don’t hang around with questionable people. I don’t engage in activities that might cause me to cross paths with an officer. I don’t upset the neighbors, and keep a very low profile when going about my daily routine.

  67. Wilson Says:

    Rob R. Do you have any thoughts on why there seem to be so many people who fear/distrust/hate police officers? There has to be some reason or reasons. I just wondering what they are.

  68. James Robertson Says:

    Rob, something tells me that some of the folks criticizing have seen Serpico one too many times and forgot how the film ended ;).

    Okay, that’s my snarky remark of the day.

    ~James

  69. Guy S. Says:

    Mas, I have never met you, but your books are required reading when any of my family or friends get their CWP. I have never responded to your blogs, but felt compelled to respond to this one.

    Way to Go !!!! You really stirred the pot –o crap this time !! Without a little controversy life would be boring, right? I am a white collar professional businessman. There is a very good reason I am not a cop. I don’t have the patience to put up with all the crap many citizens hand out to the cops. Keep your nose clean, there is no reason for a cop to stop you. And if you re stopped, treat them with respect like you should everyone. If you are guilty, pay the fine. If you are not, plead your case with the magistrate.

    I wonder if any of the negative posters here have ever put themselves in the cop’s shoes. Dark, lonely stretch of highway. Traffic stop with several large males. Did I mention there was a good reason I am not a cop? Well there is another!! You could not pay me enough money to do that. If that cop wants to go home to his family, he BETTER maintain control of the situation. As a citizen, I want him to be in control and feel safe. We are all human (although I sometimes wonder about politicians but that’s another story) and there are bad cops, firemen, doctors, milk truck drivers and hairdressers. But by far, the majority are good men and women that are just trying to do their jobs under difficult conditions and shrinking budgets.

    I respect cops and truly appreciate the work they do. If I could figure out a way to pay them for their worth to society, I would. VP’s of large companies (and many politicians – do ya see a trend here) are paid very well. What do they lend to society?

    Mas, I tip my hat to you and all our defenders of society!!!!! I have my CWP and “Carry everywhere I can legally carry.” I will not hesitate to defend my family and myself and hopefully I will never be forced to. I am so glad YOU and your brethren are out there to protect everyone else.

    Thanks for a great blog, and keep stirring….

  70. Richard Says:

    Right now have issue respect here about cops becuase you have those do job protect severing public well than have other guys who become policemen not becuase they want protect sever public but becuase some place well paying job with benfits. What sad is most poilce department hard working street cop who has deal with street stuff does rise ranks in his police deparment as fast as other guy who doing job for all benfits that he can milk out being policemen with out doing all hard work job makes you do. As for disrecpt police might come from fact that police chiefs from Las Angles police deparment to Chicago police department to New York police deparment have all been doing ant gun press conference claim rank file agress with what doing. What hurt Mass when very people who are supposed be protect sever public have there boss come to public saying that have remove your right owen more ten rounds in your guns than come out say next think not safe for public owen any guns at all have no right protect them self from those try hurt or kill them . Real hurts image respect of cops doing there job right when boss ass kiss way to brady wall fame or shame how ever look at it. I agree repect those do job as calling but hate those become cop becuase well it was better paying job with benfits act like cop Denzel Washington play in Training Day. Sad part is we all know cops like that.

  71. A Critic Says:

    Dear Mas Ayoob,

    I respect you because of your expertise in firearms and defense. I am afraid of you because of your employment as a “Law Enforcement Officer”. I fear you the same way I fear the Crips and Bloods and MS-13 gang members who have moved into southern New Hampshire.

    At some point I will try to write a lengthy explanation of why people hate and fear cops. I don’t hate cops – I don’t hate any human individual. I do hate the state, and cops are the iron fist of the state. I hate the state because it robs me. It robbed me of my childhood – I was only five when I first learned that cops will lie to you, manipulate you, and take away the most valuable parts of your life away from you for no good reason all in the name of “protecting you” – even as they put you in the way of great danger.

    Now that I am an adult cops are the ones who rob me of my liberty. If I exercise my liberty and acquire certain types of property, i.e. guns or drugs that are not sold under the state monopoly, then the cops are the ones who are going to rob me of my property, and my liberty, and my rights – and if I dare resist as the Founding Fathers did then the cops are the ones who will rob me of my life.

    I don’t hate individual cops. I feel pity for good men such as yourself who make an earnest attempt at doing an impossible job. You can’t enforce the law while you work for an organized crime outfit – and the state is nothing more than the most elaborate and sophisticated organized crime outfit yet devised.

    The theft of our property, our liberty, our lives, our rights, our rule of law – these are why people hate and or fear the cops. Even “good cops” enforce bad laws – even though that is illegal. Examine your state constitution and you’ll see the right to life, liberty, and property clearly defined and recognized and protected. Examine the powers delegated to the legislature and you’ll find that they can only pass laws for the good of everyone. Prohibition of guns and drugs and free enterprise and houses not adhering to “code” or “zones” are all for the good of the state and for the worse of everyone else. When good cops enforce bad laws they are no longer good cops.

    As others have commented there are other reasons why people hate and fear cops. The shooting of dogs is a national trend, even though the dogs are often restrained, caged, or otherwise not a threat.

    Tasers are another reason why people hate and fear cops. Watch old episodes of COPS and you’ll find that the cops could usually control criminals with their words, and when they put the handcuffs on they did so quickly and competently. Watch recent episodes and you’ll see the cops scream and scare the heck out of people, and then they electroshock torture them, immobilizing their muscles, and then they will yell at the poor sap to “stop resisting” and “put your hands behind your back” – often while upwards of six cops are on top of their victim. It is not even remotely reasonable to believe that while using a muscle immobilizing electroshock torture device and brute force to immobolize a person that they can possibly comply with those orders. When the suspect fails to comply with these impossible orders the result is additional electroshocks, two three four five six or more times, often while blows with feet or hands or other weapons are being delivered. When the hands are finally put behind the back it takes twenty to sixty seconds or more for the cops to struggle to put the cuffs on.

    This is why people hate and fear cops – a great many cops, even “good cops” are incompetent and brutish. They may not be dishonest, they may not be “corrupt” or on the take, but they are what people call “jack booted thugs”, and for good reason – they sometimes wear jack boots and they often act like thugs.

    I watch this on the television. Many others watch it in real life, whether it happens to them or their family or their friends or strangers or neighbors.

    Another reason why people hate and fear the cops – one why I do fear the cops – they are often corrupt as individuals, far more often than an honest cop like yourself has the capacity to imagine. I’ve seen far too many drug dealers flaunt their wealth about in public in front of the cops in small towns where it doesn’t take a Sherlock Holmes to deduce that the chronically unemployed loser with a fancy new house or fancy new cars and motorcycles is worthy of attention – yet they are never busted, not even when they commit violent felonies and other crimes such as violating restraining orders right in front of the police. One of the reasons why people hate and fear the police is because when we need you to protect us all too often it is the scummy drug dealer, the violent thug, the dangerous criminal who is protected while we and our loved ones are harmed.

    I hate the state because it has taken so much from me. I fear the police because they are the ones who were the willing pawns of the state in the taking – and they are still on the job and the job is not yet done as I still have some measure of life, liberty, property, and rule of law remaining.

    I hope you are reading this Mas Ayoob – and thinking critically about it. I should be your natural ally – I am by nature a super honest person, one who does not lie or steal or kill or rape or rob or harm others. I am not a criminal – but I have been treated like one, and my loved ones have been treated like one when there was no reason and no evidence to do so.

    Another more recent example – moving back to NH last year I got pulled over in small town Wyoming. I am the victim of criminal identity theft and there are false warrants issued in my name and SSN. I had at least five supporting pieces of documentation on my person that day, including a letter from the issuing agency stating that I am not the person. I also had contact info for that agency, and for the California agency where I filed a police report on the identity theft that also listed the police report number. I’m a very different height and weight than the suspect. I spent three days in jail waiting to be released. The trooper who pulled me over was fantastic, completely awesome gentleman who reminded me of what cops should be. He didn’t want to arrest me – his supervisor insisted. Without even searching me the trooper allowed me to drive 50 miles to a secured parking lot to park the moving truck. He left instructions with the jail to call him when I was released, he planned to pick me up and drive me back to my truck, but they failed to do so. He drove to the hotel room I got after I got out (very weak and tired as I didn’t eat any of the jail food for medical and ethical reasons) and then drove me to my truck. He was awesome, a shining example like yourself I imagine. Yet I still spent three days in jail because of a cop, his supervisor, and because of the cops that issued the warrants. Those cops know I am not the person they are looking for, and they refuse to change the warrants, so I am still liable to be arrested and harmed while a violent illegal alien walks around free without having his warrants tied to him in any way.

    Mas Ayoob – that’s a pretty classic stereotypical example of why people hate and fear cops and the state. Yes, there was the one awesome cop, but the rest were incompetent at best. In jail I learned from the locals that this was a very corrupt town. I believe I was sent to jail because it was a privately run jail and they get more money for every inmate, and most likely the supervisor was getting kickbacks. That’s the way it works in small towns and big cities in our declining empire. One of my cell mates was a nice guy, none too bright. His current charge was attempted manufacturing of meth. I don’t think this man could attempt to make coffee. Two of his previous charges had been public intoxication – in his own home. That’s the sort of thing that makes people hate and fear cops and judges and district attorneys. When the state crushes people and ruins their lives and robs them of their rights – people tend to become hateful and fearful. When the state is dishonest, corrupt, incompetent, and mean – people tend to become hateful and fearful.

    Mr Ayoob – I know you are a good man – but take your own advice – use some critical thinking and combine it with your criticism – and for good measure, add in your powers of reason and observation and investigation – and turn all of these resources towards your “brothers in blue”. Examine closely what I have said. Go watch COPS, old ones and new ones. Go watch some rookies in other places. Go watch some police chiefs in small town NH where big time drug dealers go about their business uninterrupted – and where sometimes the only visible contact they have with the police is when the cops park outside their legitimate front businesses at night to make sure no one robs the place. Instead of denying the corruption that is so rampant, instead of ignoring the incompetence and brutish nature of the paramilitary we call cops (an insult to real cops such as yourself) – investigate these allegations. Seek out the evidence – it shouldn’t be hard to find, and surely you have the detective skills to discover an endless sea of corruption and incompetence and the anti-liberty criminal rule of state.

    I hope to one day take one or more of your classes if you still are offering them – and if we meet then you will never know how much you scare me, and you won’t ever be able to conceive of how stark terrified I am of the new breed of cops.

    I’m very tired and rambling – my apologies.

    Another example – in ’09 my dear brother died, and in my grief I let all my paperwork expire. Registration, insurance, license, smog. Since the plate tags weren’t valid I got pulled over six times. The first three times I got warnings. The fourth time I got a fix it ticket, and that was the only time the cop noticed there were multiple warrants issued in my identity for violent crimes – he asked me what was up with that and I said “I’m the victim of identity theft sir” and he literally waved it off. I was glad for the lucky break, but it is scary to think that a real crook might be able to pull that off. The fifth time I got pulled over it was by a cop who was obviously a rookie. He was the most scared human being I’ve ever seen. I thought I was very close to being shot because he was so scared of me, despite his superior firepower (in CA I was unarmed) and position etc. He gave me another fix it ticket (with a 25 fee) before the first one had expired. He didn’t like the fact that the complications in my life such as grief and limited budget had prevented me from immediately dealing with it, so he fined me. The following week in the exact same location I got pulled over by a much older cop. I handed him all the paper work, including the two fix-it tickets. When he saw the rookies ticket he chuckled and said something like “You met Officer C__________, eh?”. I didn’t think it was funny – the younger officer was not mature enough to possess a firearm or power and he had that blockwart attitude formerly only seen in totalitarian countries overseas.

    I hope something I said awakens your cop instinct – not the instinct to defend and protect the cops – the instinct to defend and protect us the people.

    I thank you for your fine firearms and defense work, and I thank you for all of the fine police work you have done, and I forgive you for all of the times you made the terrible error of enforcing illegal unjust laws.

    Sincerely,

    A Critic

  72. Chuck Says:

    MAS,
    I’ve been told many times that I am a little slow. What part of the comment about a Beslan or Mumbai situation(in the USA) frightens these people that LEO’s will target them. I have come to the realization that it may happen. I’ve no fear about local or FED’s. Dissarmament is voluntary! Like Homer said “I think I bamaged my drain” on this.

  73. A Critic Says:

    Mr. Ayoob:

    “Well, unless English is not your first language, don’t tell me it isn’t hate-speak when people write that cops “…have proven themselves to be an occupying army.” Or, “I am not proud of the police officers we have today.” Or, “…the stazi, sorry I mean cops.”

    That is not hate speech. The first comment is a slightly inaccurate summation of the current reality. The second is also slightly inaccurate – I’m not proud of many cops. Most people lack the powers of discernment I have and most people these days tend to think of people collectively – especially when the people they are thinking of are part of the collective we call the state. The third is accurate – cops are the stazi, the Gestapo, the secret police. Try looking it from our perspective – i.e. if we choose to use the world’s safest and most effective anti-depressant, cannabis, then we risk a visit from the SWAT team and losing everything we have. The same is true if we use the same medicine to fight terminal illnesses. Cops are the iron fist that crushes depressed and sick and dying people – it is not hate speech to point this out.

  74. jk Says:

    Mas, I read the post and thought your cop haters being out in force comment was the knee-jerk prize winner of the day. I found nothing in the comments, including my own, which expressed a hatred of cops. I certainly do not hate law enforcement officers as most that I have known in my life have been good people. As individuals, police officers are, usually, very good people. As a collective, however, they are part of a militarized, steriod fueled, egocentric, power drunk State aparatus. Hardly a day goes by without hearing of officers grossly abusing their authority. Yes there are some bad cops out there. Yes the good cops greatly outnumber the bad ones. If the good cops want respect, they will weed out the bad apples and begin conducting themselves in a manner that deserves respect. Until then they get little in the way of respect, and trust is out of the question. And if they are unable or unwilling to collectively clean up their act, citizens like me will have no choice but to view every police officer as a potential threat.

  75. Chris Says:

    The fact of the matter is, cops are nothing more than State sponsored mercenaries. They are front line troops for the government. Any law that the government dreams up, no matter how unconstitutional, you will find that cops will enforce it then tell you that they don’t make the laws, they just enforce them. That if YOU do not like the law, then get it changed. What a cop out. Heck, we all know about that little old lady during Katrina who got squashed by that 250lb plus CHP cop volunteering to go to LA. and disarm the people. Those cops didn’t go down there to help anyone. They went down there to be bad-asses. I think it is fair to say that most cops KNOW that the second amendment has no qualifiers and does not require anyone to have a State permission slip to keep and bear their arms. Yet, if they find a citizen carrying a weapon, they’ll go spastic and arrest you. The they have the audacity to say … “But, but, but, how do we know if you are a bad guy or not!” Cops, that is the nature of your business. Don’t like it? Get the hell out of the business. How do I know that you are not some dumb-ass cops who are going to spray the neighborhood with 33 bullets because you are afraid of a dog? Are you serious! How about that guy the cop told to drop the knife and something like within 6 seconds, he killed the guy. The first cop who showed up says, “You did the right thing.” The cop killed him because the guy was partially deaf. The knife wasn’t even open. And they guy wasn’t even bothering anyone. Come to find out, the cops in the town knew this guy, a harmless drunk who liked to whittle on wood. He got off, because some prosecutor who gyrates his loin in the presence of copdom says their was no malice. I’ll tell you what, let me shoot a cop because it is a sunny day and you’ll find every single cop in town having an orgy fest on my carcass. You think I’ll get off on no malice? So now we know why cops have come to learn that they can get away with bullying the mundanes. It’s the cop worshipers who gyrate their loins at any mention of copdom and who ever gets it from a cop deserves it … somehow. Or the SWAT raid on some small time dopehead with a little weed who got triple tapped because he was defending his home with a golf ball iron from … “Hey. Are they real cops or is this a home invasion robbery?” They didn’t even have the courtesy to tell him to drop it … just triple tap just like that. And it happens all the time. Innocent or guilty. Even you old timers have become just as bad. What exactly are they pushing into your heads these days that they were not pushing into your heads 25-30 years ago? I don’t remember you cops acting the way you do today 25-30 years ago. I had a cop a few years ago pull me over on a totally BS lie. I relayed that story to a newly retired cop I had just met and he just laughed and said, “Oh, he was just doing a Terry Stop.” Well, I suppose I am lucky I didn’t get the crap beat out of me or shot after I told the cop who pulled me over that the reason he gave me for pulling me over was total BS and a lie while his face turned 50 shades of red and purple and the veins in his neck about to explode. He knew it was BS. I suppose I was just suppose to be a good little mundane and go along with his BS copdom. Who knows … I could really have been a bad guy? You know what the sad part is? I could go on in all honestly. Want to go into DUI/License/Insurance/seatbelt/were are you coming from/were are you going/can I sniff your Pepsi can/enjoy the flashlight in you eyes mundane road blocks?

    Okay, now I am going to let the cat out of the bag and you cops are gonna say … GOTCHA!

    I almost went to prison for 40 years 1 year after serving my country. I got hit in the back with a night stick. Didn’t even have a clue it was coming. Immediately reacted by defending myself. As he laid on the ground with his mangled nose, I said to myself, “Oh crap, its a cop.” To late. A 357 revolver is 4 feet from my head. I am on the ground. The handcuffs are placed and then … stomped on. Now I am in a world of hurt. Because I am in a world of hurt and squirming … I get the night stick treatment AND the mace treatment. I am thinking if I do not play dead, I am going to die. I’ll skip my injuries to make it short. It was a case of mistaken identity. I wasn’t the guy they were looking for. Do you think they let it drop? 1st degree felony assault on a cop. 40 years. Of course they stacked the court room.

    Why do you think they tried to plea bargain with me and drop it down from a 1st degree felony assault on a cop to 3rd degree misdemeanor simple assault? Why do you think they did that? Why didn’t they just drop it?

    By the way, they were moonlighting in uniform as security.

    Do you understand why I plea bargained despite a broken ankle, a broken cheek bone, and nerve damage to my wrist?

    Do you understand that when I see a cop dressing down a 85+ year old frail man in a parking lot…

    Never mind. You will never get it. Only punks demand respect regardless of their behavior.

    Get this! YOU – ARE – NOT individuals. You ARE a institution. When a worm is in the apple…

  76. Wolvie Says:

    Despicable, totally despicable.

    And also ironic. Easily, some of the most stereotyped people in this country are gun owners and survival/preparedness people. You would think that these two groups of people would be less inclined to stereotype other groups like law enforcement. Of course, being that this is the internet where anyone with a keyboard can enter into their own Walter Mitty world and claim to be anything…one has to wonder if some of these comments were written by people who really belong to the aforementioned groups.

    Either way, the internet is an open door and as with all open doors, sometimes the garbage blows in.

    Mas, If you would indulge me, I ask that you consider doing a few things:

    1) Don’t Even Respond to the Haters, Trolls and Keyboard Commandos.
    Giving them any attention at all just feeds their already bloated ego and low self esteem.

    2) Read Through and Delete All of the Comments That Post Links to Private Blogs.
    The attention starved malcontents don’t deserve to use your articles as a piggy-back to market their own babbling screeds. Let them go out and do something great in the world like you have done and earn the viewers and readers.

    3) Keep Doing What You Have Been Doing.
    I have been reading your work for over 30 years. I was the firearms instructor from NY (& WTC survivor and worker) that you took the time to call a few months back to give me advice and information. I will always be grateful for that call and for all the things you have done to save lives. These nameless, faceless, cop-hating anarchists do not make up your true readers and fans. As you stated earlier, some of them are first-time posters to the page. Since you have been writing about law enforcement for so long here, and this is the first time they showed up, I am suspicious that they all didn’t come from the same place with the same plan in mind.

    Keep the faith, sir. The people who are out there trying to actually make a difference look forward to (and appreciate) your help, insight and training.

  77. jimthejarhead Says:

    The main purpose of my having a piece is to be able to control things till an officer of the law can respond, this includes dedly force if nessary!

  78. Mark Harrison Says:

    Why you should never talk to a police officer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

  79. wilson Says:

    For some reason the urls were stripped off of my previous comment. Here it is again.

    Are the authors of the articles below cop haters? Please explain your answer. Curious minds want to know.

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/duffy128.html

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/BehindTheScenes/2010/10/06/a-day-in-jail-in-gold-beach/

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/OliverDelSignore/2011/05/04/are-police-dogs-just-looking-for-love/

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/

  80. John Longenecker Says:

    People who cannot process legitimate criticism believe a critic hates them. They cannot own their own actions within a framework of reasonableness, and they fill in that gap that a critic must hate them.

    It’s an adolescent reaction and hardly correct. When we say that police have no duty to protect individuals, for instance, we are called anti-police. “How can you say that about our police?”

    Adolescent.

  81. Tim from CO Says:

    James Robertson- Good post again. Wonder if the authority thing has anything to do with a guilty conscience…

    Chris E- That’s some good advice you got there, a lot of people would do well to listen to it.

    Rob R.- Thanks for not stereotyping like so many posters have been. My wife and I truly appreciate what your Brothers and Sisters do for everyone. Like I said before, if I see one of them in need, I will assist them.

    Bob from Illinois- Well said. Seeing how everything you mentioned is obviously bad, we might as well get rid of all of those. Except the rainbows, just need to tax that gold…

    Guy S.- You know I really doubt many of the negative posters have tried looking at it from the other side. Just putting up with all the scum they encounter on a daily basis earns my respect. That’s why if I’m ever pulled over, I am going to do everything I can to NOT seem like that to the Officer. Everything I say will be calm, polite and end with Sir.

    Chuck- I have no idea either…been wondering that myself…

    Wolvie- I agree with you, I’d just go through with the delete key and move on. By the way, you forgot Internet Ninjas.

    What really scares me here are the people who fly off the handle bar so easily. When you have a disagreement with someone in person, do you instantly resort to yelling and profanities? Hope you all have extremely understanding wives and friends…and I truly hope you never get involved in a self-defense shooting either. Cause the whole preclusion thing…

  82. Mike Says:

    The problem isn’t cops….

    Cops do what they are ordered to do or they are FIRED and or ARRESTED.

    Its the corrupt officials giving those orders that are the problem.

    Look at the ATF.

  83. CitizenAlso Says:

    More and more of us citizens are being considered criminals:
    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-day-life-%E2%80%9Chomegrown-terrorist%E2%80%9D

    More and more of us citizens are having our homes attacked in the middle of the night (at least the KGB knocked):
    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476

    How would you view the enforcement arm of all this? How the hell do we defend ourselves from the law enforcement we pay for (involuntarily)?

  84. Chris Says:

    Wolvie Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 1:40 am
    Either way, the internet is an open door and as with all open doors, sometimes the garbage blows in.

    And your reaction is typical of most cops and cop worshipers. You look at every story about badge heavy cops as nothing but BS. We had a rookie cop a couple of years ago who pulled over a drunk off duty fellow officer. He arrested him, rather than, you know … wink … and do it all hush hush in house. Well, let the station house harassment begin. Needless to say, he was pushed out the door in less than 2 months.

    I find it amazing that grown men demand hero worship and respect just because one is a cop. I don’t think anyone here is arguing that cops don’t do good deeds. But then again, most criminals still love their mothers. But we’re not on a point system are we.

    The fact is, and most cops are to cowardly to admit it, there are cops … and then there are mundanes. I’ll give you a perfect example:

    Met up with some friends at a coffee house. It was warm and we decided to sit outside. We are shy of one chair. There is one chair at a table with 2 deputies sitting there available. Being polite, not because they are cops, but it is just the right thing to do, I asked if that chair was taken. They just flat out ignored me. I asked again. This time, you can tell by the body movement that I obviously disturbed them and the one cop just looked at me and then turned back to his partner. Didn’t say a word. Finally, I said, “Look, I am not trying to bother you guys. I am just asking if this chair is taken. If not, I would like to use it.” The one cop who just looked at me, pushed the chair towards me in a rude manner and told me to get out of their business.

    I hear a ruckus in my back yard. I go out and check and the cops are jogging through the easement on the side and back of my back yard. The last one stops and asked if I had seen anyone run through. I told him I just walked out the door and didn’t see anyone. I made a quick look around my back yard while he continued on. A few minutes later, that same cop came back through the easement. My neighbors dog, on the other side of the easement, barely got his head over his wall and was barking. So what does the cop do? He stops. He looks at me. He smiles. He pulls out his side arm. He points it at the dog. He turns and looks at me again still smiling. He holsters his side arm. He is walking away, eyeballing me and still smiling until he is out of sight.

    And people wonder why some of us are angered by the pathetic displays of punkdom that cops are prone to pull.

    Remember, you represent an institution. When the apple is full of worms…

  85. Lew Says:

    You see the world through the eyes of a seasoned police officer, your articles talk to those who generally agree with you, I am one of those.
    Mas, if you could get past your own filter you would see that since the 1970’s & maybe ’60’s the LE world has had a dramatic change, some good and some bad.
    In the 1980’s there was alarm amongst some LE and in political circles about the morphing of some PDs into para military units with the constituent “us v. them” attitudes.
    Do I fear all cops? Hell no ! Do I fear the garrison mentality that some have adopted ? Hell yes !
    The following diverges slightly from the original topic.
    About 6 years ago there were a series of “near shootings” of children by police officers in this area. I wrote a letter to the newspaper saying that their “hair trigger” way of thinking had to stop or an innocent would be killed. Less than a year later it happened, a state trooper put a load of 00 buck into an innocent, mentally challenged fellow who posed no threat to anyone.
    I caught hell from other readers for “attacking” the police. Had the trooper taken less than a second to learn the situation a young man would still be alive and the cop would still have his job.
    I’m still an Ayoob fan but we do have probs.

  86. Bill Bowland Says:

    I think the majority of cops out there are good folks who do a hard job.

    However, as soon as a state of emergency is called and the A.G says round up all the guns there is a good chance these cops will comply.

  87. Dave_H Says:

    “Because the politician appointed to head Homeland Security hints that gun owners might be suspect, you should hate the police officer who patrols your neighborhood?”

    Hate isn’t the correct term, at least not for most people. Problem is, Katrina showed without any doubt that when politicians give an unconstitutional order a certain percentage of officers are going to say yes sir and enforce the order.

    That is why I like the Oath keepers.

  88. Rich Morales Says:

    Mas,
    I have read three of your books and many of your articles in American Handgunner. From this I believe I know where you stand on the second amendment and protecting our second amendment rights. I can also sense the justifiable pride you have in your career as a LEO. Your career indicates that you have always worked to ensure the safety and training of not only your fellow LEO’s but also the civilian shooting community. Sadly we live in a society of complainers, many of whom do nothing to improve things.

    One bad cop, politician, or priest doesn’t make them all bad but you would never know that by surfing the internet. I fortunately live in an area where I can respect the local police who,in my experience,perform as the professionals they are. Please keep the good articles coming Mas and I hope the next blog brings you better comments.

  89. Pmec Says:

    I guess, Mas, we have a problem, and the way to resolve the problem is using good old Farm Boy Logic. FBL tells me that there is something missing between the LEOs and the common folk…. COMMUNICATION!

    I remember when I was a kid in the small town I’m living in. Cops had feet on the street – they were one of the citizens of the community. Dog biscuits in one pocket and candy in the other, and even a band-aid or two in yet another pocket for a kid that skinned his knee. Those days are long gone.

    COMMUNICATION is the ticket. LEOs sponsor get-togethers with concealed carriers… BBQs or something else – it doesn’t matter… what matters is that we all get to know each other and have worthwhile conversation.

    Maybe I’m dreaming, I donno, but I’m damned sure that communication is the answer.

  90. Mark Says:

    I really have no problem with the police department in my community. I remember being challenged by a police officer in my own front yard because a neighbor mistook me for an intruder and called the police. The experience made me feel like the police were doing a good job. I have also had experiences with police who over stepped their authority. An officer threatened me and my family in our own home. The officers uncle did not like my brother riding his bike up and down the street so he sent his nephew who was on duty to our house. We opened the door to the officer and his partner and we were friendly. The officers entered our house and began throwing accusations at our family about my brother riding his bike. When my mother asked what her son did wrong the officers told her to shut up and began cussing at us. The truth was that his uncle for some reason did not like our family, and used his nephews authority as an on duty police officer to intimidate us. The uncle even accused me of trampling his garden when I was no where even near his property. I found out who did trample his garden, but he would not listen to me. I was a young teenager at the time and that experience was quite unsettling. What is my point? My point is that police officers are human beings like anyone else and have families to go home to at night. They are imperfect just like you and me. They also are also capable of doing good like you and me. The police are often under tremendous pressure having to deal with a wayward public and criminals. They make their living enforcing the laws written and interpreted by judges and politicians. The police are the enforcers of a system they did not create, just like our military are the enforcers of policies they did not create. They both do their jobs whether they agree with it or not because they are sworn to a duty. They also have families to support and the system they enforce signs their paychecks. A few bad officers and a bad system do not make the law enforcement community bad. Finally, just like a soldier in battle must be suspicious of those he runs across in a war zone, a police officer often is suspicious. The reason for this is he or she wants to return home to see another day. A lack of this quality can someday get you killed. The police are in a war zone of their own. Take the police away and see how bad it gets! I blame many of these problems on a corrupt system from the top down that forces people to work within it to make a living. The American people lack the solidarity to rise up and challenge the system in numbers. If you truly want to see change then get enough American citizens to rise up and speak with one voice against the corruption. March on Washington. create grass .root movements that flex political power by numbers. I do not mean thousands of people, I mean millions of people. Police are nothing more than American citizens themselves who are products of the society that has produced them. They are a reflection in the mirror of who we are as a society. A change in the system will never take place as long as people are more concerned about themselves than they are about standing as one voice for change.

  91. Lawrence Keeney Says:

    Folks

    Right now, Im dealing with a stalker…a genuine certified crazy person who thinks Im someone else and has posted death threats against me on youtube.

    I’m currently working with my county sheriff’s office trying to charge this looney bird with something before he does something that forces me to use lethal force to defend myself.

    Im a man who is handicapped as a result of an auto accident, and limp around quite painfully on a cane. The local deputies know me, since Im a newspaper publisher and have been around them since I was a new newspaper crime reporter. Ive been to a pair of shootouts involving the department and a number of violent incidents that almost turned to fatal shootings and so far, this department has been nothing but top notch. Why?

    Because theyre from here, they know everyone and treat people with respect. In the end, thats what makes for a good department. If the guys with the badges treat you the same way they would their own friends and family, then there wont be corrupt cops.

    I should say that in the 11+ years Ive been doing this, Ive seen one genuinely bad cop and the sheriff got rid of him quickly. Ive seen a couple of small town city cops who were uncertified who were what Id call dangers to society. Unfortunately, only one of those two has been dismissed from law enforcement. Thats what we have the power of the pen for. Law enforcement are more afraid of a bad newspaper story than a lawyer.

    And as for my stalker, these deputies are working their butts off trying to find a charge they can level against this guy so we can put him in jail. In the meantime, they sat me down in the sheriff’s office and gave me a little re education regarding the law of self defense and what I need to do in order to cover my ass if I have to shoot this guy, God forbid.

  92. Wolvie Says:

    Chris Says:
    “Blah, Blah, Blah,
    And your reaction is typical of most cops and cop worshipers.
    Blah, Blah, Blah…”

    And your reaction is typical of must pukes and lowlifes that don’t have the ability to go out and actually do anything that improves upon society. You take 800,000+ people who are doing a job that involves putting their lives at risk to serve and protect and lump them all into an offensive stereotype.

    I don’t believe a single story you referenced and at this point, I wouldn’t believe a thing you say even if your tongue came notorized. You are a hateful individual with an agenda against the police and nothing more. Strange how you all of a sudden showed up on a blog that has been here for years written by a police officer, who trains police officers, when you don’t like police officers. I guess it must have been a slow day at the Huffington Post.

    I’m sorry you got beat up in school and are generally bullied every day and that this caused you to hate authority figures. Actually, I take that back…I’m not sorry. Living in your own, cowardly world, afraid of anyone who holds authority and spewing your hate is the exact place you deserve to be.

    What you say, what you think and what you do won’t change my life or my views one iota. Some of us will stand on the wall. Some of us will be thankful for the effort and some will crawl in the shadows and curse the lack of sunlight.

  93. Chris Says:

    Dave_H Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
    That is why I like the Oath keepers.

    I hope you guys are making some kind of a dent.

    Go look up “Damn 5-0” if it still there inside the members area. If it is, see if the original cop author is still a member and been … reformed.

  94. Fruitbat44 Says:

    I’ve never had a really bad experience with the law, so maybe my attitude would be different if I had. Anyway IMHO, just because we do not live in paradise that doesn’t mean we live in hell.

    And Mas, FWIW, since I am extremely unlikely ever to be involved in running a shooting range this is definitely FWIW, if you or The Evil Princess ever showed up, you would be welcome.

  95. Pat Says:

    “Well, unless English is not your first language, don’t tell me it isn’t hate-speak when people write that cops “…have proven themselves to be an occupying army.” Or, “I am not proud of the police officers we have today.” Or, “…the stazi, sorry I mean cops.””

    Mr Ayoob, the above quotes are not “hate-speak”. They may be cynical or angry — but above all, they are indicative of the way police have been increasingly behaving for the past number of years around the country.

    I dare say (without numbers in front of me) that every reader here has observed, seen, heard, read, or felt the unfairness of both Law and Order in their community. We have read the intention of govt to make police the “standing army” in this country; experienced the heavy-handedness of the judicial system in our respective communities, from cops, DAs, and judges; experienced, too, the retaliation of policemen who use stun guns and other unnecessary force in anger on helpless people, because they refuse to immediately “obey” or shut up when ordered by policemen; and watched with increasing trepidation as “law enforcement” in general has taken the place of “serve and protect.” (In fact the police themselves acknowledge that Serve and Protect is no longer in effect, if it ever was.)

    I don’t doubt that you and your fellow policemen (the ones you meet on the range and in educational meet-ups) are “good guys”, and that you are trying hard to hold the line of decency in your jobs.

    But how many cops are, for example, members of Oath Keepers? How many even believe in its concept? How many of you would break the law, *in the face of orders,* if they felt it was morally or Constitutionally wrong?

    How many cops ASSUME INNOCENCE of the suspect they are holding until he has been *proven* guilty in a court of law? Conversely, how many assume guilt of a suspect because somebody called in an “anonymous tip”, or because a person “runs?”

    How many cops assume the “citizen” SHOULD obey the cop as a figure of authority, no matter the circumstances? (Authoritative hierarchy as an ideological _modus operandi_ was swept out of favor in 1776.)

    Policemen say they want respect from the public; in fact they want unquestioning obedience. But respect does not mean obedience (or fear), respect is not even a tangible act; it is a rational response to how one is treated. *Respect must be earned.* Police — in fact all Authority at all levels — are frequently undeserving of respect, because they *no longer respect the very laws they are hired to uphold.* They shouldn’t ask for (or demand!) what they aren’t prepared to give in return. They have no reason to expect understanding from a public they treat as inferior and automatically criminal.

    No, this doesn’t apply to *every* policeman; but to how many? I don’t know the percentage of “bad cops” in this country; I do know that the definition of “bad cop” is interpreted quite differently by the public, than by the cops themselves.

  96. Dave_H Says:

    Well Chris, I don’t know what kind of impact they have. I only mentioned it because the gun confiscation thing was actually more disturbing to me than individual bad behavior. After all a small percentage of the population happen to be dirtbags, so it is logical that a like number of the people in law enforcement are also. As troubling as those incidents are, they are the actions of individuals. Post Katrina, a Mayor and his police superintendent cook up a blatantly illegal order and had no difficulty finding enough people to enforce it.
    The existence of the oath keepers means that some folks currently wearing the uniform were as horrified by that development as I was.

  97. Craig Nishida Says:

    In any group of people, there are good and bad. I have many friends who are LEOs and they are great people. I have great respect for those in Law Enforcement and thank them when I can. My gun club is used by police and sheriff departments for training. I bring them snacks when I go to the range. Sadly, it’s often a thankless job.

  98. Brogan Says:

    OK Let’s apply critical thinking to this. First, I resent being called a cop hater as much as you resent any criticism of the police. Seems like that “Broad brush of stereotyping” fits very naturally in your “ignorant” hand as well.

    By labeling any one who is critical of the police in any way, “a cop hater”, you have used that brush to try and paint anyone opposing your sterling image of police into a corner.

    Trying to invalidate with a statement the many personal experiences of individuals, news reports, Un-edited raw video accounts and even admissions from LEOs that there are problems in your ranks, is worse then stereotyping as it straight out dismisses the truth. All the mounting evidence simply can’t be dismissed no matter how unpleasant it is to see.

    Title does not dictate behavior. The shining image the police are supposed to have is akin to, politicians, clergy or any other situation where people are put into a position of power over others. A lot of those people simply can’t live up to what is expected of them. I didn’t say all, as that is simply not true. However enough “Bad Apples” are out there to more than tarnish the image of all (Yes, even the good ones).

    Using the excuse that “it is a stressful job”, “you try dealing with the public” or any number of reasons to explain away bad behavior is inexcusable. Being a police officer is first and foremost a choice. If you are looking for praise for doing your job, or can’t handle the stress related to the occupation then you are in the wrong profession. Police are given specialized training to deal with theses situations. They are given every advantage over the citizens they are supposed to serve and protect and are thus expected to behave to the standard they tout to the public.

    When Said standard is not adhered to by those who hold power over us it’s not so simple to over look as it involves the public trust being violated. When trust is concerned, it takes years to build up trust, and it only takes suspicion, not proof, to destroy it.

    In cases involving police who violate the public trust a criminal record, financial ruin, physical injury and even death of innocent are all possible and have occurred to good law abiding citizens who are unlucky enough to encounter that officer who is having a bad day, is stressed or any other reason you want to use. At the end of the day that officer goes home and the citizen has his life ruined. Is it any wonder people don’t trust the police?

    All that was happening with out the rampant militarization of Police. The use of Swat teams to serve minor warrants is ever increasing. The patriot act has given the police scary powers over citizens… all that is needed is for the terror card to be played then searches, seizures, arrests, beatings, tazerings all are justified because YOU might be a terrorist (this is out of control in NY).

    All the new military toys that are being funneled to Police department have to be justified. To do that they need to be used… Guess who they get used on? Do police really need tanks and APCs? With the new toys comes a new attitude. Dress a cop as a soldier and he will act like one. I am a citizen, not a civilian and have rights. Also officers confusing fear with respect. Fear and respect look similar as it gets compliance however fear needs to be maintained and breeds contempt. Respect is earned when given and through trust.

    There is sooo much more to this (cops as revenue generators for one) but at the end of the day it all about trust. It has been violated more often then not so forgive me if I get my panties in a bunch for being called a cop hater. I don’t hate cops… I don’t trust them.

    When a man assumes a public trust he should consider himself a public property.
    Thomas Jefferson

    I cannot trust a man to control others who cannot control himself.
    Robert E. Lee

    One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.
    Thomas Sowell

    Trust has to be earned, and should come only after the passage of time.
    Arthur Ashe

    Put your trust in God; but be sure to keep your powder dry.
    Oliver Cromwell

  99. .45StayAlive Says:

    Hi Mas,

    I wrote a comment in the prior blog entry suggesting the idea that it would be good to promote Reserve Officer programs in the cities and towns that already have them, and start RO programs in those that don’t yet, in order to thicken the thin blue line a bit.

    Unfortunately, with the direction much of the rest of the commentary went on that prior blog entry, you probably didn’t see what I wrote (I actually asked you your opinoin regarding the idea).

    What do you think? Would more Reserve Officers throughout the country be helpful?

    All the best,

    John

  100. Golem Says:

    Sorry. Been shunted into one too many DUI checkpoints with two rows of ten BDU-clad thugs holding wooden sticks diagonally in their hands (I think you call them “batons,” which is French for “sticks”) as a show of force.

    When your “customers” are forced to pay your salary at gunpoint, “customer service” is completely optional. If you or any badge-wearer would arrest someone for carrying a firearm without a State permission slip, or possessing vegetation, or for safely driving without a State permission slip, or for not wearing a seatbelt, said badge-wearer is an aggressor. You enforce the immoral statutes passed by politicians. You do not get a “by” for “just following orders.” “They loaded the gun, I’m just following orders by pulling the trigger.” You are the point of the spear.

  101. JS Says:

    I love guys like you Wolvie. They remind me of how ignorant I once was. Please don’t stop voicing your opinions, helps me know to avoid you.

    Also, you forgot to call him a “punk who smokes weed in his mom’s basement”.

    Oh, and I’d be a keyboard commando nerd who did get beat up a couple of times in school. If you haven’t been to a public school (even in semi rural Oregon) in the last 15-20 years you might not know what the rules are. Defend yourself? You’re just as guilty as the guy who started the fight and be ready to be suspended or expelled. I was lucky that back in the mid 90s I didn’t get suspended. Odd how the 3 times guys picked on me they didn’t bother me after I stood up to them. Can’t do that with corrupt cops though, no one believes you. So continue to live in your sheltered world like I do in mine but be ready cause if it gets bad, the police likely won’t be your friends if they’re still around.

  102. James Robertson Says:

    Tim, I think we ALL have a guilty conscience of some sort (unless your conscience has been completely seared from flaunting what your conscience knows is right…. and that state of being is a VERY frightening prospect indeed).

    For instance, about a year and a half ago I was pulled over not more than a block from my apartment. I WAS nervous b/c I’d forgotten to put the latest proof of insurance in my glovebox (as in, I was carrying insurance, but the copy I had with me had already expired, though I was still carrying a policy). Turned out that a combination of automatic running lights and the well lit area of the street made me NOT realize I’d forgotten to turn my lights on and the cop pulled me over thinking I had a busted tail light. At night, that was absolutely the right thing for him to do. I could’ve caused an accident if someone hadn’t seen me when they needed to.

    Was I nervous? You bet! I didn’t want a ticket on my record less than 2 years after my last accident (and thus not yet be eligible to go to defensive driving school instead of paying a fine and getting points on the license). So yeah, I was nervous. He let me go, though, when we both realized my error. He was polite, professional, and gave me a stern but by no means overly harsh admonishment to be a bit more careful.

    I’m thankful for that.

    I’m also thankful for the AZ DPS patroling the freeways. Today, just driving home I saw a single officer on patrol. At first he was tailing an SUV towing with a strap a car. I guess the car had gotten disabled. He was escorting them with his lights on to the nearest off ramp. He then continued on and hit his lights again upon seeing what I saw was an abandoned van over off the shoulder. Just a normal officer doing his duty during a time of day when the chief concern on most people’s mind who are on the freeway is to get home and avoid annoying delays. Meaning, he could catch some crap from annoyed motorists who he was just trying to keep safe from their own sense of “end of day tunnel vision.”

    I try and give those men my respect even if I never meet them but only pass them (or they pass me) on the road. We drivers are trying to avoid inconveniences like hitting every red light (so we’ll sometimes speed up to get through an intersection before the red, even if it means our front tires crossing into the intersection AS the light turns red, etc., etc.). These cops are trying to keep us from causing inconveniences like multiple car accidents, t-boning another motorist, or going too fast for us to react to changing situations properly. That’s among other things they’re doing. And when they’re at their busiest, we’re at our most intolerant for “disruptions.” Not exactly a great formula there for friendly interaction.

    Unless an individual officer is just simply acting like a jerk who likes to be in control 100% or abusing his authority, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. At least I’ll try to. I’m the least of the guy’s problems and I want to act like it by not getting all pissed off and bothered by him just doing his job. If I can make his day just a little easier by being halfway decent to him even if he’s being a bit on the overly gruff side, then I’ll be glad to do it. We both like our lives uncomplicated.

  103. Sgt. Adams Says:

    Mr. Ayoob. Police officers routinely approach citizens with their hand on their service weapon these days. They do this for routine traffic stops, when questioning potential witnesses and so on.

    This is just one reason why honest citizens fear and hate the police.

    If I approached you with my hand on a weapon would you love me for doing so?

  104. Wolvie Says:

    Please “JS”, by all means, avoid me. It makes my day when one less malcontent crosses my path.

    Thank you for your obviously stellar information and education on what public schools are like. I mean, it’s obvious that someone in “semi rural Oregon” would have so much more insight and experience than someone from that backwater town of Brooklyn, NY. Yeah, that’s where I’m from.

    And I work with High School students on my own time…

    And my wife is a teacher…

    And it all occurs in Public Schools.

    But go ahead, continue to enlighten me with your awesome experience. I mean, a person who works with kids in public schools who is married to a teacher and who was born and raised in Brooklyn and attended only public schools from K to 12 is obviously “sheltered” and needs to be schooled from someone from “semi rural Oregon”.

    (Insert pause to allow laughter to die down…)

    As for dealing with the police…I have extensive experience…but I am not one of them. I’m an instructor in both firearms and motorcycles and I have done accident scene reconstructions. So I’ve trained and trained with the police (NYPD, Suffolk County, Nassau County, NY State Troopers and more small sheriff departments than I can easily name). I’ve hosted and chaired safety conferences with the police. I worked with their trainers. I’ve trained some of their trainers. I’m a member of many DOT sponsored safety councils. So, again, tell me how I’m the one who is sheltered.

    Corrupt cops aren’t your problem…your own lack of self esteem and hatred for authority is the problem. As such, there is nothing that any cop can do that could ever help you and your hate will continue as a side effect of your own self loathing.

    Here endeth the lesson. Now feel free to ignore me as you stated you would.

    As for the other cast of characters, we have cop haters and self-admitted convicted criminals who, miraculously, just appeared on a site written by a police officer that covers law enforcement and firearms. Hmmm, I smell a rat. By my best guess, one of these fine, upstanding citizens probably stumbled across the site and wrote about it in a blog as a call to arms for all of his equally upstanding and law abiding readers to come over and spam the comments in an effort to educate all the rest of us sheltered, ignorant readers.

  105. Mas Says:

    To John, who feels that reserve officer programs promote understanding between cops and those they serve: I agree. The “civilian police academies” around the country have done an excellent job of this, too, in my opinion.

    best,
    Mas

  106. Long Island Mike Says:

    So after 200 some posts, I think the point on both sides of this argument has been made. Got it. Can we move past this now? Mas ain’t there any thing else going on in the gun world? PLEASE post on some other topic soon.

  107. dsd Says:

    irony this is a story today – here’s one for you to cheer wolvie

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w210.html

    “Birk claimed that he had been “threatened” by Williams, a 50-year-old alcoholic woodcarver who was carrying two closed knives at the time of the incident. The autopsy, however, documented that Williams wasn’t facing Birk when he was shot: The officer approached him from behind and to the right, and Williams was shot in the right side of his body from an estimated distance of about ten feet. A fifth shot that missed the target was never accounted for.

    No reasonable person would have considered Williams a threat to Birk; in fact, since the victim was partially deaf, it’s likely he never clearly heard Birk’s demand that he drop his carving knife, and died before understanding what was going on. The entire lethal encounter lasted less than eight seconds.”

  108. Matt Says:

    “It’s generally accepted that there are 800,000 cops in this country. In any community that size, some will go bad. That’s why there are police departments, and that’s why police departments have internal affairs bureaus. No one deplores the tiny minority of bad cops more than the vast majority of good ones.”

    It’s that the number of incidents has gone WAY up in recent years – or at least the number of press-covered ones has. Here in North Carolina, the long-sterling Highway Patrol has had far more scandals in the past three years than in the entire 30 years before.
    That has been every imaginable (and unimaginable) kind of misconduct by troopers, many resulting in dismissals – and some in felony convictions of troopers. Included in the latter was a highly-publicized case in the past year in which a trooper stopped a young female college student at night – not knowing she was the granddaughter of a former congressman – drove her somewhere in his patrol car, and (unsuccessfully) propositioned her.
    Stuff like that does nothing to improve any agency’s overall image.

  109. ron Says:

    Mas,
    I’d caution everyone to not disparage the people of BHM (readers or producers). These people are passionate, yes, but not ill-willed. In the end, liberty thru self-sufficiency unites most here.

    I’d second the suggestion that you should watch this LEO publicly explain the process of prosecution : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc (lying is to be expected)

    I’d also suggest reading the following article on Peace Officers vs LEO’s: http://www.markmccoy.com/police.htm

    It boils down to acting “under color of law”. I respect you and Will Grigg. You should discuss if “officer safety” is priority one. Would be a great debate, no?

  110. dsd Says:

    more irony in the news

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42928442#42928442

    (the officer was obviously afraid for his life)

    mas, do you have any critical thinking to add to this? is she a cop hater who got what she deserved?

    until all those “good” officers start disowning and publicly speaking out against this sort of behavior – it will only keep getting worse.

  111. Chris Says:

    Wolvie Says:
    May 5th, 2011 at 1:24 am
    I’m sorry you got beat up in school and are generally bullied every day and that this caused you to hate authority figures.

    Funny that you should mention that. We had a student who was on the Police Explorers back in 76-77. And the word was, that he was a “Golden Glove Boxer.” Are you getting where I am going yet? Well, he was on the PE program, but I doubt he was a GGB. Anyhow, me and Carl went to the boys room between classes. I’m doing the urinal thing and Carl is sitting on the toilet when tough guy GGB comes in and walks the stalls to Carl. And he starts picking on him. Now think about that Wolvie. I tell the GGB to leave Carl alone and he tells me to shut up and goes back to Carl harassing him. I finish my business and again tell GGB to leave my friend alone. GGB turns on me and makes bee line straight for me. I cold cocked him right between the eyes and knocked him on floor.

    Who got suspended for 3 days and who do you think had to pay for the punks glasses? So Wolvie (how cute) … and this is a true story whether you want to believe it or not … it hardly seems that I was bullied.

    Now Wolvie, I know there are “good” cops out there. The problem is, most of them are to ingrained with the “us vs them” attitude, they will not, in most cases, when they see a heavy hand, say anything or intervene because they do not want to cross that line that has been imposed on them by the institution.

    And … Wolvie … check yer gyrating.

    As far as “authority figures” … Wolvie … no man has authority over me. I live by a moral code that precludes anyone having any kind of authority over me. I realize that you probably won’t understand that Wolvie, because you are a slave to men who have assumed authority over you.

    I have never picked another mans pocket, nor have I broke another mans leg who didn’t deserve it.

    Cops have their place. And sometimes there is a need to get rough. Somehow, to many cops have lost their compass.

    Remember, cops represent an institution. When the apple is full of worms… throw it out, lest it taint the barrel.

  112. Wolvie Says:

    Yes, the self-admitted liar and convicted criminal spins yet another tale.

  113. Josh the vet Says:

    Sorry Mas, but at the moment statistics tell me I’m more likely to be killed by a trigger-happy cop than I am by a terrorist.

  114. Kevin Goodin Says:

    1. Police officers are largely evaluated based upon how many arrests they make. Period.
    2. They don’t get a lot of credit for writing tickets for traffic violations. So, if they can come up with a reason, or antagonize the average person enough to justify searching the car, they have the chance to find something and make an arrest.
    3. Cops stink, but it’s largely because of the system they are in.

    Ask any cop if the first 2 aren’t true.

  115. Jeff F. Says:

    Massad Ayoob – You are a complete idiot and should be restrained from posting your opinion.

  116. MKEgal Says:

    In the closed thread, someone posted this, which pretty well sums up my thoughts, too:

    “A vindictive cop can quite literally ruin your life over nothing, if he has a mind to… There are not a majority of cops who would do such a thing, but… it is not possible to tell who the bad cops are before they ruin your life. As a result many good honest people have a legitimate fear of cops. Statistically bad cops are in the minority but statistics are cold comfort when you find yourself on the receiving end.”

    I have a friend who is an officer on my city’s PD,
    work with several retired officers,
    am very good friends with a retired deputy,
    and I’ve had 2 very bad nonconsensual encounters with officers.
    (Both resulted in 1983 suits, and no, I did nothing the least bit wrong to merit their attention, let alone what they did to me.)

    I’m still willing to believe that most officers, like most people, are basically decent. But I am now on guard when approached by officers in a non-social setting. I will be polite, but I no longer assume that they are there to help (unless I’ve called them) or that they will respect my rights.
    I wish things would change, so I could go back to believing that all cops are one step below sainthood, and half Superman to boot.

  117. Larry Goodin Says:

    Excellent article! How true it is. A vast majority of cops are a great asset to our society. Naturally there are a handful that have hurt the profession, just like in any other profession. I am a Christian, but there are some TV evangelists and others in a religious capacity that have given Christianity a bad name too. I would like cop critics to name one profession that doesn’t have rotten eggs in the ranks. It doesn’t exist.

    I encourage good men and women to pursue a career in law enforcement. There is a code of ethics that holds police officers to a high standard. Thank God for the good cops we have. For those wanting to learn how to become a cop or more about that code of ethics, check our this link: http://www.how-to-become-a-cop.com/police-officer-code-of-ethics.html

  118. Romana Muscott Says:

    Definition of a Statistician: A guy who believes figures don’t lie, but admits than under analysis a lot of them won’t stand up either.
    To command is always to serve, nothing more and zilch less.
    We flourish in enterprises which demand the positive qualities we possess, but we excel in those that can also make use of our defects.

  119. Marty Allred Says:

    I realize this is WAY late in being posted (sorry, I had forgotten all about these postings and I’m trying to get caught up)….

    I think that by far the #1 thing law enforcement officers can do to restore their image with the public is to completely eliminate, in a very visible way, the “professional courtesy” shown to fellow officers. Do things like making it illegal for an LEO to show his ID when pulled over for a traffic violation, have state troopers that are tasked with making a point of pulling over and ticketing out-of-jurisdiction officers that are speeding just because they know they can get away with it, publish statistics on how many tickets (to include actual fines paid, not just tickets issued) that the police officres got compared to the general population. That sort of thing. Fix the situation and make it obvious to the public that it has been fixed.

    I used to have an 80 mile commute each morning and evening and for the nearly two years that I drove that I saw at least 1 (and as many as six or seven) police officers that were well outside their county/city go flying by me on the freeway. Yes, even the ones with an “Integrity” bumper sticker on the back of the car as the city police department tries to promote a different character trait each month. I didn’t just see at least one each day- it was at least one in each direction. I’d say the average was probably closer to three in each direction each and every single day. There was literally not one trip- morning and evening- that didn’t have at least one officer without a legitimate reason for speeding that was speeding anyway. We’re talking about going typically 10+ mph over the speed limit.

    How many off duty officers were also zooming on by without any real fear of getting ticketed for it? Not to mention legislators (that make the traffic laws) and judges (that enact the penalties for violators) and even fire fighters that are carrying “get out of tickets free” cards.

    Joe Citizen sees the clear hypocrisy in an LEO blatantly getting away with the same act for which he would get tagged, perhaps by the very same officer, and it causes a loss of respect and a diminishment of compassion.

    Sure, virtually all cops are happy to see a fellow cop get punished for being a wife beater, but do they ever even report a fellow officer for having illegal fireworks that they confiscated from some kid? What about how they handle finding an officer driving with an open container? Do they just let him pour it out or throw it away or do they actually write them up or arrest them?

    I’m not looking to hold our men and women in law enforcement to a higher standard than the general public (although maybe we should), but I also don’t think they should get ANY preferential treatment.

  120. Merrie Stay Says:

    I’ll not speak about your competence, the write-up basically disgusting

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