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Massad Ayoob on Guns

Want to Comment on a blog post? Look for and click on the blue No Comments or # Comments at the end of each post.



Massad Ayoob

THE TUCSON ATROCITY: MORE THAN ONE CRACKPOT

Tuesday, January 11th, 2011

As we wait to learn more about the mass murderer in Tucson – and as we extend thoughts and prayers to his victims and their families, and congratulations to the four courageous citizens, one of them armed, who stopped the massacre – we saw people with their own political agendas dancing in the blood of the victims before it had time to dry at the murder scene.

Even reasonably civil discussions like this one on NPR ignored a couple of 800-pound gorillas in the studio. One, of course, is the fact that a man who carefully plans what he calls in his own handwriting an “assassination” is bent on violating one of the sternest prohibitions in the history of civilized humanity, and is not likely to be deterred by more gun laws. That other gorilla is the fact that you can only prevent atrocities like this by segregating dangerously aberrant people from the rest of society, and that opens a Pandora ’s Box of mental health issues, privacy rights, and Orwellian images that few in this society are prepared to deal with. We are, after all, a society that buries mental illness so deep that a fruitcake like this guy can pass an FBI check to buy a gun.

So, instead, we see ridiculous claims: “That damn Palin!” “Those damn Tea Party people!” Yes, Palin had a diagram with “crosshairs,” not on an image of the wounded Representative, but on her district. LOOK AT THE PICTURE!

Palin Hit List

But the far left Daily Kos, which apparently didn’t find representative Giffords listing far enough to port to satisfy them, proclaimed her “dead” and published this image:

Daily Koz

And our disingenuous friends the Brady Bunch used the crosshair motif this way:

Brady Postcard

Gimme a break – on both sides. The bullseye, the crosshair reticle, the very term “targeting the opposition” have been common imagery in business and politics in America for as long as this old man has been around. Each party “targets” its opposition. Ford and Pepsi “put their crosshairs” on General Motors and Coca-Cola. Our current Democrat President said during the 2008 campaign, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.

Yes, there has been genuine hate speech…and the left has brought its share. Michelle Malkin compiles examples for you HERE.

And if the bullet that felled Giffords, a pro-gun, pro-closing-the-borders Democrat, was supposed to have been launched by right-wing propaganda, can someone square that with the fact that the killer’s fractured mind is obviously somewhere to the left of Chairman Mao?

There are complicated issues here. Ironically, there’s only one simple answer, and that would have been for one of the good guys to get these crosshairs into this sight picture, and press the trigger in time.

Jared Loughner

44 Responses to “THE TUCSON ATROCITY: MORE THAN ONE CRACKPOT”

  1. Tim Says:

    Finally, some common sense. Sadly, I think our society has reached a point where “taking a deep breath” is beyond its grasp.

  2. Steve Says:

    It was surpsirising that no good guy was armed there, might have prevented some of the carnage, probably not the first few victims.

    Steve

  3. George Says:

    There’s a “Targeting Strategy” map with bulls eyes that has been up for years — since 2004. It is a illustration that shows districts that are being targeted.

    The source? The Democratic Leadership Council.

    http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

  4. Amanda Says:

    Mr. Ayoob,

    I agree with almost every single thing you said. I, too, wish there had been a good guy (or gal) able to press the trigger in time.

    However, I think nothing is gained by calling this guy a “fruitcake” or comparing his mind to “somewhere to the left of Chairman Mao.” If this is guy is, indeed, mentally ill, nothing is served by this except to, as you so eloquently state, bury mental illness even further. And, this, I believe, is the problem. We don’t understand mental illness, and we somehow think there are “choices” involved. I have dealt with a very close family member who has experienced a psychotic break. There were no rational decisions being made. This person had no control over his actions other than what his mind was telling him to do. And, God, the things it was telling him to do. I shudder to think what might have happened had we not obtained help in time.

    I really do wish with all my heart that he had been stopped before innocent blood was shed.

  5. Roger in NC Says:

    The lives of decent people have been taken and the lives of those that care for them have been forever scarred by the act of a madman. There will be attempts to create new laws to prevent another such tragedy. I pray our representatives will someday understand that laws can only punish criminal acts and not prevent them. By definition, one cannot influence criminal behavior or insanity through legislation.

  6. Glenn Alkire Says:

    And as expected we see the anti-gun folks shouting from the rafters to push their anti 2nd amendment agendas. To politicize a tragedy for ones own gain is totally insane. Ronald Ragen after he himself was shot by a nut job, said (and I paraphrase this), “we must not punish a whole socieity for the actions of one person, but rather hold him or her accountable for their action”. I look at America as a whole and I wonder, where has Common Sence gone?

  7. Tom 606 Says:

    The crosshair should be placed between the bottom of the killer’s nose and upper lip for the least deflection and quickest stop. The more guns we have in good citizens’ hands, the less likely monsters like this scumbag will be successful in the future.

  8. Walter White Says:

    I’ve been wondering why nobody in the crowd shot this wacaloon.
    In Arizonia you don’t even need a CPL to carry. I guess crowds at Democratic party events just self- select for helplessness.

    If this had been a Teaparty event the cops would have picked this idiot up with a sponge.

  9. Mike Says:

    Thank you so much for your post and your work in general. I have been reading your articles and posts since before you came to BHM. I always finds them insightful.

  10. Joshua Says:

    Many good people are saying many good things about this case, and I will leave that to them. All I have to add is the following:

    1. Although I’m not technically qualified to make this call, everything I can glean suggests that this guy had a serious mental illness. That being said, I cringe every time someone writes off his act as part and parcel of his mental illness. The vast majority of schizophrenic, bipolar, manic-depressive, dissociative people are just ordinary folks trying to get by from day to day. Flipping out and murdering people is done far more often by maladjusted, mis-socialized “sane” people than by stereotypically “crazy” people. That people focus so much on mental illness when a crazy person does flip out is an example of confirmation bias.

    2. There’s something going on in this country and I don’t know what it is. This guy shooting Rep. Gifford. That guy who flew his plane into the IRS building a while back. There are more. I don’t think you can write all of them off as just “crazy nutjobs.” I don’t know what else to say about that, though.

    3. I have heard gobs of energy spent on various blogs and forums arguing over whether this guy “belongs” to the left or the right. On the one hand, he is reported to have read the Communist Manifesto. On the other hand, he was all about currency reform. Does belief that one’s dream-world is more real than one’s waking-world cause one to be categorized to the left or the right? As far as I can tell, this guy had no particular “left” or “right” political spin. Like many ordinary people, he was all over the map. Focusing on his political affiliation just seems like an inappropriate attempt to make political hay out of a tragic event.

  11. Vic Anthony Says:

    This assassin used a pistol. IF anyone said that he was crazy believe it or not they could have been sued for deformation of character. My question is would this person have been a suicide bomber to accomplish his goal? Or maybe a pickup truck to run down his victim? Or if he used fertilizer to blow her up would they have background checks to anyone purchasing fertilizer?
    Let us not forget that a demented person picks a target not a weapon. This has been seen in Iraq where a “friendly” walked into a secure mess hall and blew himself up and killed a number of American soldiers . I dread saying this, I am not cold hearted, but his parents should have been the first to sound the alarm. AND his friends second. I am sure they all had access to a phone.
    In closing my prayers go out to the families of the victims and to God to accept the victims into his arms. I’m sure he will.
    God Bless America and God Bless those who are no longer among us.

  12. Bill Says:

    For those wishing there was someone at the scene with a firearm… there was. In fact, when I saw his pix in the following article, I recognized him as one of the two men interviewed on the Sunday Today Show who subdued the ‘shooter’.

    The following link to this article may raise a hair or two on your necks as the Journalist went out of his way to spin a negative scenario based on our 2nd Amendment, instead of using one of the “hero’s” common sense approach and sense of responsibility and restraint as a prime example of who we are as law abiding citizens, versus being ‘hair-trigger vigilantes’

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018893/ns/slatecom/?gt1=43001

  13. Bill Says:

    To Amanda who posted her earlier comment to Massad…
    At first-blush, I respect your point of view and sentiments as “recognizing” the ‘shooter’ as a sick individual versus falling-back on ‘name calling’.

    However, you may want to step back as I have and step above the fray to recognize “why” some on this blog (to include this author and Massad) may be attempting to shift the focus “where” it rightfully belongs… the lone ‘deranged’ shooter.

    By doing so, you will see; as I predicted from the initial news-breaking event hit the airwaves, that those attempting to confiscate your (our) 2nd Amendment rights, will immediately attempt to lay blame on those of us mentioned by Massad with their vicious rhetoric in politicizing this horrific event… as did the Sheriff of Pima County who is a very outspoken ‘Progressive’ partisan. Even at this time, Democratic (Progressive) legislator’s are creating more extensive gun laws which will only ‘punish’ law abiding citizens, as we know those hell-bent on committing violent crimes will “ignore”, leaving firearms in the hands of the criminals alone.

    The bottom line is that those referencing this ‘shooter’ mental state in their descriptive ways are only looking to turn the attention where it belongs in rebuttal to the those pointing the ‘finger of blame’ towards Sarah Palin, Tea Party, Conservatives, NRA, Talk Radio Hosts, FOX News etc. Remember the individual who flew his plane into the IRS building last yr.? Well, the same people attempted to politicize that by laying blame on the Tea Party. If you care about your Constitutional Freedoms, you may want to turn your focus on the resurfacing of the Fairness Doctrine and the stealth intent of the UN Small Arms Treaty in creating another stepping-stone of extinguishing “our” 1st & 2nd Amendments.

  14. JP Says:

    This sheriff should be ashamed of himself for injecting his political opinions into a criminal investigation but I feel he is trying to misdirect away from his very own short comings and failure to provide public service to his comminity. This sheriff and his department failed Mrs. Gifford terribly.
    Number one when a member of the U.S. Congress is making a public speech in a supermarket public parking lot the local lawenforcement always send officers for the following reasons:
    1. To direct traffic.
    2. To keep crowd control.
    3. To provide security for the congresswomen.

    Lastly this mentally ill individual has never been baker acted which is a 72 hr. involuntary hold for a mental evaluation. His sheriffs department failed to take this individual off the streets of his county. Shame on this sheriff and his agency for their failures.

  15. WillieC -Florida Says:

    Man… My thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families .
    These things will happen unfortunately. Gun laws or not.
    If a determined nut wants to get you, more than likely he will.
    Or attempt to anyway he can.
    Yea, the media and the anti-gun grabbers will have a feast with this , but we have Been through it before and again in the future.
    Arizana being such a pro gun state, I can’t believe nobody there was armed. If they were , maybe they were afraid to react . Well if that was the case , we will never know .I personsly would reacted , but that’s me. I would have shot the SOB. And call it a day ..
    I’m not trying to be a hero, I have family also , But I personsly can’t just stand around and do nothing. But that’s me. I feel as a responsible ccw gun owner it would be my duty.

  16. Rob Leahy Says:

    Walter, as Mas mentioned above, there was an armed citizen there. He opted not to shoot but to tackle-it worked.
    Mas; Well put.
    Our society uses gun jargon so often most yuppies don’t even realize it: they just go off half cocked and point fingers.

    Rob

  17. John in ME Says:

    It’s always easy to Monday-morning-quarterback a situation.

    I’m sure most folks have seen the clip of the assassination attempt that John Hinckley made on President Reagan. Secret service and other by-standers reacted instantly, but Hinckley was still able to get off six shots, wounding 3 people directly and a ricochet that hit the President.

    Some of the reports I’ve seen said the Tucson shooter used a Glock 19. I know from first hand experience how fast you can empty a mag with that sidearm. Let’s just say faster than it takes for the average person to react.

    The armed citizen (and the others who helped tackle the guy to the ground) did the right thing. The 2nd Amendment doesn’t protect a right to take the law into your own hands. When you’re in a crowded area, you don’t just start shooting back.

    John Chick
    Monmouth, ME

    “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” –Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

  18. Scott Parsons Says:

    You nailed it Mass! As usual :) Good Job!

  19. Winston Smith Says:

    This is the best bi-partisan action that happened from this event:
    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/01/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-congress-guns-/1

    Two House Representatives, one a Republican (Chaffetz, UT) and the other a Democrat (Shuler, NC), are going to be packing pistols at their public events from now on, and looking into how to add more armed security (local police plus U.S. Marshalls) at public speaking engagements. We need to commend them for their LOGICAL approach to this problem!

    Something I haven’t seen anywhere: Does anyone know if Loughner used FMJ ammo in the shooting? I’ve read that he bought ammo at Wal-Mart that day, and obviously Giffords’ wound was a through-and-through but she’s surviving with some unknown amount of brain damage. I’m just wondering if more harm would have been done to Giffords and the other wounded victims if he had used “carry ammo”, like +P JHPs. Anyone know what ammo he used?

  20. JP Says:

    One more point. As a retired police officer with many years of service I feel strongly that gun control is not the answer. People have the right to self defence and with so many more crazy killers out there it very wise to carry concealed and have the hardware with you to not only protect yourself, your family and innocent members of the public such as the 9 year old angel that was taken by this monster. My suggestion to all is to get a gun, train with it and carry it on your person for self protection legally. Remember rule number one of a gunfight is to have a gun.
    God bless all the victims and my prayers for a full recovery to congress woman Gifford. Keep up the great articles Massad!

  21. Sian Says:

    I’m usually not at all partisan, but….

    This is *Arizona*. if it had been anything but a Democratic politician speaking, there would have been legally armed citizens in the crowd ready and able to stop things well before this guy could have even thought about reloading.

  22. Amanda Says:

    Bill: Thanks for your comments. You are, however, as they say “preaching to the choir.” I agree that using this tragedy to further political motives of reducing and, indeed, eliminating our 2A rights is disgusting, inexcusable, and, sadly, not unexpected. The focus does need to be on the individual who caused this tragedy. Calling him names doesn’t help and only serves to further stigmatize mental illness. Don’t get me wrong, there is a difference between true mental illness and drug-induced mental illnesses, being maladjusted, having a crappy life, lacking character, being abused as a child, and the host of other reasons that are used to excuse an unspeakable act like that which has occurred. We wouldn’t expect someone with Alzheimer’s disease to be able to remember things that they obviously can’t and then call them “stupid” or question their intelligence for not being able to remember. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that there are not a lot of folks that know much about true mental illness and it’s easy and convenient to vent frustration and anger by using names and labels without realizing the harm it might cause.

    Thank you for your suggestion regarding the UN Small Arms Treaty and the Fairness Doctrine. To be honest, I know next to nothing about this, but will try to educate myself further because I do care deeply about my constitutional freedoms.

  23. Mark Says:

    Let’s feed this to the media:
    The senseless violence against Representative Gabrielle Giffords on January 8th once again demonstrates the awful carnage consequential to irresponsible use of motor vehicles. Jared Loughner was reported to have taken a taxi to the Arizona shopping center where he became a murder suspect. Access to taxi cabs is far too easy in this country; anyone can get a ride in a taxi and the driver should have known Loughner was unstable! Despite stringent and recurring licensing requirements, the chronic levels of property damage, grievous injury and vehicular homicide are simply unacceptable! Who among us doesn’t know someone killed or injured in a motor vehicle related incident? Yet little if anything is ever done about it and the death toll just keeps climbing…

  24. Marc-Wi Says:

    I think JP is onto something. I read Michael Bane’s blog and followed some links. One reported numerous 911 calls to his home. LEO were “aquainted” with his peculuairities and anti everything facebook. The link said no action was taken because his mother worked for the county. some of this was on Fox News tonight. And I don’t care what anyone says, he’s a nutjob.

  25. CapatainBob Says:

    Mark hit on just what I say when “friends” question me as to wether I think more gun control is the answer. I respond by saying, “If this nut had used a car ti run over and kill these people no one would be even thinking of more laws tocontrol cars but as soon as it’s gun used the first reaction is more gun control.” This usually leaves the person with a blank stare as they ponder this.
    One other note, the news interviewed on of the people wounded by bullet fragments in back and knee. The “man” first said when the shooting started he (purposly) fell to the ground to hopefully protect himself until someone else saved him. What a sheep! And worse, he actually said, on camera that the shooter was “vigorously exercising his 2nd Amendment rights”….!! Incredible! No correction, just media fawning.

  26. Long Island Mike Says:

    IMHO the 800 lb gorilla in the room of this discussion is that of mental illness. I’ve lived in towns of 300 and large urban areas. There just are lots of folks who have some severe mental problems. Whether it is caused by poor potty training, brain chemistry gone awry or 5 tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, it is out there. Gen. Patton thought shell-shocked soldiers were gutless cowards. Now we have some understanding that constant stress of combat can bring down the mental state of even the burly and brave. The homeless Viet Nam vets that live in cardboard boxes or the Iraq veterans that kill their spouses are just the more visible of the problem.

    It is easy to switch the discussion from the left wing media blaming Sarah Palin to the dismissive use of “nutjob”, “wingnut” and all sorts of similar phrases. But both to me are avoiding the real issue. Back in the 1960’s we de-institutionalized the mentally ill. Our wonderful politicians never provided for what was proposed as group homes and local small care facilities. So now 40 years later we reap the whirlwind. Travel to any major urban area and see the THOUSANDS or collectively MILLIONS of homeless mumbling mental cripples who fend for themselves on the streets of America. Schizophrenic’s living in their own world.

    This guy has videos on youtube. Take a look. The damm things are barely comprehensible. Yet he got no care in Tucson. Never hospitalized. Never diagnosed and treated. No meds. Just a brain that was out of flaming control. Random thoughts firing away. Hallucinations and behavior totally out of control. That’s the bigger picture. Shame on this society for what we do to those who can’t control themselves. Whether a kid in Tucson, or a Marine who has melted down in Iraq. Our attitude is not much different from Patton. Suck it up. Your all faking. Act normal. Your a bunch of lazy bastards and get a job.

    Until we realize that 1% of this country is schizophrenic (3 MILLION OF US ), realize the consequences of that figure, and do something about it, we will just have to deal with random acts like this, Ft. Bragg murder rates and all sorts of other acts we generally don’t like.

  27. Matt Says:

    Crackpot In Chief (Obama) today tried exploiting the incident – AFTER it already was off the front page here!
    In so doing, Obama gave the image that he’d still be trying to exploit it a year later. Not smart politics!

  28. James Robertson Says:

    To those who say there was an armed man there, no there wasn’t. An armed man responded, but not in time, and when he arrived it was too late to stop the killer with force, so he wisely chose to assist in tackling the guy.

    That doesn’t count as “being there” in my book. BEING THERE would be being present and able to return fire when the man began shooting.

    Let’s be clear here. An armed citizen responded. No armed citizen was there initially. A lack of guns proved to be the final failsafe failure in a string of failures, and probably the only one in which no one in particular can be blamed. The other failures on behalf of the sheriff’s department for actively discouraging people from pursuing criminal complaints against this guy for threats and the like (a complaint which could have easily resulted in the legal declaration of mentally unstable being pronounced on Loughner, and his 2nd Amendment right thusly restricted through due process, thanks to his clear derangement that was present for quite some time before this incident) are of the worst kind of criminal malfeasance.

    What does it say when a law enforcement agency willfully, not forced by those above them, neglects the safety of citizens by knowingly letting a dangerous psychopath go unchallenged and not brought before a judge and placed in a mental institution? It doesn’t say alot, folks.

    If this happened in Phoenix under the same circumstances, there would already be impeachment proceedings being brought against him. Then again, our sheriff actually has a steeled spine, unlike the liberal in Pima County who lets nuts like Loughner go wild while he sweeps the issue under the rug.

  29. Cameron Says:

    One of the heroes at the mall came out of a Wal-greens with his CCW pistol and helped secure the scene by physically subduing Loughner. He was ready to use his pistol and actually went in the direction of gun fire to try to help out. No unarmed person would think of doing this but since he had the right tool for the job he went to help.

    He also clarifies in this excellent interview why CCW is important and why gun control just harms citizens. A 5 minute video with some great replies from the hero.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-3GTwalrGY

  30. Steve D Thompson (Texas) Says:

    Sir, that is about all that needs to be said. And I agree with all my heart.
    It saddens me that this happened, but like you I agree it is not a reason to unarm our population. But rather a reason more responsible people actaully carry and learn to control such violance with personal arms. I have taken some defence lessons and learned to load and fire a side arm in light of the currant state of our nation. I really like your books, and I want to thank you for writing them. I really enjoyed you work on how to avoid conflict @ all cost. And I agree with the Marine that taught me to always have a back up plan.
    Again Thank you for your ongoing work.

  31. Fred Says:

    Many Monday Morning Quarterbacks, all have opinions, some are “sure” about what they would have done. Fact is unless you are there, you don’t know what you would do.
    These anti-gun people who are jumping at the chance to further their game should be ashamed of themselves!
    Anybody with an ounce of common sense should know that taking away high-cap mags and or guns will do nothing to stop this from happening. Look at the cities in this country that have the most strict gun laws, they also have the highest crime rates.
    That’s all I’ve to say about this. Keep up the good work, Mas.

  32. Richard Linares Says:

    What even worst we got silly gun control be push out again as cause that could stop what happen. People push out gun control want force ten round clips on ever one again . You could explain people that clip what put in your m1 grand not your handgun. Becuase all most laughable that mainstream media people want take way are hi cap mags to are handguns keep call them high cap clips. Have silly people at msnbc spend all time on evil firearms. Claim more people die in friearms attacks. Last time check more people die from dui cars crash daily from smoking than they do geting shot. More people died in 911 attacks when jets crash in world trade center. How ever some people useing this event to attack any one beleaves in 2nd Amendment. I think sad reminder that there people out there again ready use atrocity attack 2nd Amendment rights for owen safty. Being that live in silly state of Calf I can tell have ten round mag ban has made my state any safer for matter any other thing they have done there make safer place live.

  33. Mike Orick Says:

    The 10 round mag limit is back on the table.

    In 1881 in Tombstone AZ nine men armed with at least 10 guns fired at each other near the O.K. Corral. They fired about 30 shots at each other at distances of less than 30 feet. When the smoke cleared there were 3 dead and 3 wounded.

    In 2011 in Tucson AZ one man with one gun fired more rounds than all nine of those men put together, killing twice as many and wounding almost five times as many all by himself. He did that before the good guys nearby carrying concealed could stop him.

    This is progress?

    On the other hand, Tombstone is much safer now that the people who live there are allowed to carry concealed weapons than it ever was when they were not allowed to carry any guns at all in town. Their are fewer gunfights in town now that the good folks there are carrying sixteen shooters than there was when nobody could carry six shooters.

    In 1990 NYPD was armed mostly with six shot revolvers. Ten years later in 2000 they were armed mostly with sixteen shot semiauto pistols. Though officers were firing more than twice as many rounds with their semiautos during gunfights in 2000, they were hitting their targets half as often (9% v 19%) as they did with their revolvers in 1990 . More progress?

    Then again, crime in NYC is at record lows now that sixteen shooters are the pistola du jour for both cops and robbers.

    How safe do we want to be, and at what cost?

    I do not support it, but a 10 round mag limit bothers me more on priciple than it will in reality.

  34. Tom Young Says:

    Good work Mas, as usual, good to hear one voice of reason

    But I fear nothing good will come out of this on either side of the pile of dung both Democrats and Republicans feed off of

  35. BikerRN Says:

    Mas,

    I will break my self imposed silence on this issue, and then go back to my anonymity.

    I reside in Tucson, and have been to that Safeway many times. In fact I could have very easily been at that shopping center later in the day. Arizona is a great place to live, with the exception of Tucson and Pima County, being that it is a far left liberal bastion.

    The CCW Holder that responded, as noted, ran to the sound of guns. He did not flee, cower in fear, or turn his back. Sadly American jurisprudence has made acting like the lone armed responder fraught with danger, in a legal and civil sense, that I feel would cause our forefathers to hang their heads in shame.

    The blood from this event lies on the hands of the killer, the cuckoo for cocoa puffs whackadoodle. Not, as the liberal pansy Sheriff Dupnik claims, on the vitriolic political discourse, Tea Party, or Sarah Palin. As more dirt is being uncovered it is being found that the elected Sheriff shirked his duties, or those under him did, as well as various other law enforcement agencies. Of course the blame will fall on the underlings, as leaders don’t take responsibility for their underlings anymore. We no longer have leaders that lead from the front.

    If blame needs to laid elsewhere it can be laid at the feet of the ACLU. It used to be a lot easier to commit people for mental defects, but thanks to the American Criminal Liberties Union that is not so today. Being that this was a democratic event in Tucson, I am not suprised that there were no armed individuals in the crowd except the killer. The democrats in Pima County are more concerned with the rights of illegal aliens than the rights of law abiding Americans.

    I have a lot of anger over the event. First, because nobody was able to face the evil, and kill that evil where it stood. Second, because Judge Roll was one of the good guys. Third, eventhough I disagreed with his politics, Ron Barber was a fair minded man who worked for Giffords, and really tried to make a difference. He was one of the wounded. Fourth, nobody deserved to go through what those people went through, and I shudder to think what misguided laws will be put in to place in an attempt to stop an event like this from happening in the future.

    Bad things happen to good people in the nicest of places. There is nothing that will ever change that. All any of us can do is try to be prepared, and go about our daily lives. I just hope our so called leaders and represenatives allow us to have the tools to do so in the future.

    Biker

  36. Dann in Ohio Says:

    Amen.

  37. James Robertson Says:

    Biker, I agree.

    I know its now unlikely that it will happen soon in the future here in Phoenix, but I’m trying to carry in a manner in which I can get my gun out and up readily, but keep it concealed and keeping my eyes and ears more open. First thing to happen: no more listening to stuff through my earbuds while at Fry’s. Yeah I usually see a regular Phoenix cop standing out front (especially late at night), but as we see here, even a quick responder can get there much too late. The window of opportunity was probably under 10 seconds before the killer reached slide lock and was tackled. By then the damage was done, 20 shot, 6 of them dead.

  38. Bill Says:

    I think there should be the policy of not mentioning the perpetrators name or duplication their picture, once they have been caught. Why give them that power in the media. The evil dead should not be forgotten. I don’t care to know the guys name that shot Lennon. He’s scum and should be forgotten. Same with this guy.

  39. Jay Baker Says:

    One quibble with your post and that concerns the DailyKos image “screenshot.” The bottom line is that it isn’t a screenshot. No such image appeared at DailyKos with respect to Rep. Giffords or any other pol that they had targeted for defeat in the primaries. The original post remains and can be seen here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568

    I’m no fan of DailyKos, but whoever generated the “screenshot” you used in this post has deceived you. It’s a falsehood, pure and simple.

  40. Jay Baker Says:

    Well, heck. It seems that an independent diarist writing at Kos may have used that bullseye image, but that’s the act of someone writing independently and publishing without anyone to edit them. You can read about it here:

    http://is.gd/MzvCzH

  41. Mas Says:

    Jay, thank you for your input. I didn’t say it was a screenshot, though it does look like one. However, it is purportedly a collage of things that did appear in the Daily Kos on the day in question. The anonymous “Boy Blue” did indeed write the phrase “certainly puts a bulls eye on their district,” and did apparently declare Representative Giffords “Dead to (him).”
    If the Daily Kos allows anonymous, unmoderated commentary on their site, they’re still responsible. I have to occasionally delete whacko hate rants from the commentary here. It’s a simple matter of responsibility.
    Finally, a brief reminder that in my original blog post on the topic I said that the bulls-eye crosshairs rhetoric was BS anyway, IMHO.
    Further comments always welcome,
    Mas

  42. Long Island Mike Says:

    To all those who say we have an unprecedented level of vitriol in our political arena…two words….Burr – Hamilton

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr%E2%80%93Hamilton_duel

  43. Stan Says:

    My point is, that at this range he would be better off but not using his Glock at all. If he pulled a knife and stub a congresswomen and folk around here it would be more chances that she was dead by now. It might have saved her life that a gun was used. And no matter what people say, knife is proven many times to be a lethal weapon for mass murder.

  44. 2manyhobbies Says:

    Just as you cannot legislate stupidity, neither can you stop evil or insanity with new or more restrictive laws.

    Evil, Insanity, and Stupidity are all siblings of a kind and must be watched out for, as none will ever obey any law passed that will hinder their mayhem….

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